Need advice about Epson 7890 or 7900 purchase to use with XMF

Started by pworden, January 02, 2015, 10:56:30 AM

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Ear

Oh ya, sorry, I misunderstood... I'm sending PDFs from XMF to the EFI.
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David

Prepress guy - Retired - Working from home
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pworden

Commercial Sheetfed Offset  + Digital; XMF, Trendsetter, XMF Remote, Xerox digital, XMPie, Heidelberg SM74, Epson 9600, HP5500 Spinjet, IQ-Smart, X-Rite CMM.

Diddler

PDFs created/exported in XMF I believe are not from the rendered data. This may be old information and they may have changed how it created them, but as I see it you can create a PDF and view it before the data has been rendered. I would stick with the .TIF option of proofing from. Just my paranoid 2c worth.
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Ear

You are correct, Diddler. The exported PDFs are not rendered, just preflighted and imposed. I also send to a Spinjet, for non color accurate jobs... basically a color blueline. In the case of the spinjet, it takes the screened/rendered TIFs, runs a descreen and sends a composite tiff to the spinjet. Again, these proofs are soft and desaturated, but the content is 100% accurate.

The PDF to EFI can be incorrect, since they are not the same as the rendered plate Tifs, so I am a little leery. That said, I've been using that system for a few years meow and have only had it lie to me a couple times. Both times were early on and were transparency issues with spot to process with drop shadow device-n. The proof showed it but it blew up in the RIP. I have since adopted checks upstream to catch this and have not seen it since.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

frailer

Patty, like Diddler, here in OZ we use Black Magic with XMF. It's an OZ company, but am sure they have a presence in the US. They are great guys to deal with, and would certainly be worth contacting. Peter Skarpetis, the principal, was the first, I believe, to get a decent 'RIP-Integrity' proofing system that was workable. Can still remember reading about it in a trade mag here in the early 90s.
It reads, (as I understand it), the 1-bit TIFF info from XMF, then re-renders it to 720 DPI, and adds a screening simulation.. We swear by it for simplicity and robustness, as I think Diddler does.
After (too) much pain, about 2 years ago we got it profiled for a 'best (shotgun) fit' for Uncoated stocks. We are not a certified shop in any way, and it's seat-of-the-pants from PDF in to bindery.  :embarrassed:  Having said that, we manage OK. We change stocks, as you do, for those. We can only get 'close', with the plethora of uncoated/recycled stocks around these days.

Re PDFs... we got stung by soft-proofing with PDFs out of XMF (pre-render). We routinely Export a RIP-integrity PDF from the Black Magic file. A fiddle, but well worth effort. One proviso; you need an Acrobat Pro Optimize pre-set to hack that file size down too emailable size. I get them down by ~90% without too much degradation. Takes some experimenting with Compression settings, but once done, a breeze.

The Black Magic software is done by Serendipity, when you're 'net searching.

.... oh, use an Epson Pro 7900 here (we-re B2 size).. A few years in with it. Love it.
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pworden

I will call about Blackmagic today. Another question came up today in conversation with owner – I recall that XMF will drive an Epson directly, but is not recommended because of color control. Can anyone elaborate? Does anyone do this? Thanks!
Commercial Sheetfed Offset  + Digital; XMF, Trendsetter, XMF Remote, Xerox digital, XMPie, Heidelberg SM74, Epson 9600, HP5500 Spinjet, IQ-Smart, X-Rite CMM.

pworden

Update: Now my mission is to propose two systems – one system with only what we must have for a press proof and also to maintain / create plate profiles. For that, I'm looking to drive an Epson 7890 directly with XMF (might go rasterized for integrity), and the entire system would contain the Epson plus XRite i1Publish Pro 2, our XRite 530 Spectro, and our CCDot CCD5 plate dotmeter. XMF Tech guy assures me that they have several of the 7890 being driven directly by XMF without a problem.
The better system would add a Spectroproofer for a more automated, verified proofing system, which then would require a Fiery RIP. Would still need a reader, software for to build plate / proof profiles, so would add in XRite i1Publish Pro 2.
That's my most simple solution right now.
We are a small commercial printer but high quality. Alas, our equipment got so old we couldn't use most of it, so are now sadly out-of-date. The second system is nice but I'm mindful of overkill. Have to decide in the next couple of days. I do have a contact for Black Magic who I'll call back today. Any advice again much appreciated.
Commercial Sheetfed Offset  + Digital; XMF, Trendsetter, XMF Remote, Xerox digital, XMPie, Heidelberg SM74, Epson 9600, HP5500 Spinjet, IQ-Smart, X-Rite CMM.

pworden

Quote from: Diddler on January 05, 2015, 06:30:20 PMI use Blackmagic software from Serendipity for all our colour calibration to run to Epson 9900, 9880 and 9800. The software works with XMF effortlessly and is fairly easy to use once it is set up. You just select your job and tell it to which print queue you would like it to run out of.
I have only every had to replace a print head on the 9800 once but that was after 37,000 prints and I must admit we kept it poorly maintained.
Which Blackmagic package do you use? Pro? Lite? 2-up? Thanks!
Commercial Sheetfed Offset  + Digital; XMF, Trendsetter, XMF Remote, Xerox digital, XMPie, Heidelberg SM74, Epson 9600, HP5500 Spinjet, IQ-Smart, X-Rite CMM.

pworden

Quote from: frailer on January 06, 2015, 05:18:04 PMPatty, like Diddler, here in OZ we use Black Magic with XMF. It's an OZ company, but am sure they have a presence in the US. They are great guys to deal with, and would certainly be worth contacting. Peter Skarpetis, the principal, was the first, I believe, to get a decent 'RIP-Integrity' proofing system that was workable. Can still remember reading about it in a trade mag here in the early 90s.
It reads, (as I understand it), the 1-bit TIFF info from XMF, then re-renders it to 720 DPI, and adds a screening simulation.. We swear by it for simplicity and robustness, as I think Diddler does.
After (too) much pain, about 2 years ago we got it profiled for a 'best (shotgun) fit' for Uncoated stocks. We are not a certified shop in any way, and it's seat-of-the-pants from PDF in to bindery.  :embarrassed:  Having said that, we manage OK. We change stocks, as you do, for those. We can only get 'close', with the plethora of uncoated/recycled stocks around these days.

Re PDFs... we got stung by soft-proofing with PDFs out of XMF (pre-render). We routinely Export a RIP-integrity PDF from the Black Magic file. A fiddle, but well worth effort. One proviso; you need an Acrobat Pro Optimize pre-set to hack that file size down too emailable size. I get them down by ~90% without too much degradation. Takes some experimenting with Compression settings, but once done, a breeze.

The Black Magic software is done by Serendipity, when you're 'net searching.

.... oh, use an Epson Pro 7900 here (we-re B2 size).. A few years in with it. Love it.

Thanks - I see you're using TIFs in to the Blackmagic RIP. Which Blackmagic product do you use?
Commercial Sheetfed Offset  + Digital; XMF, Trendsetter, XMF Remote, Xerox digital, XMPie, Heidelberg SM74, Epson 9600, HP5500 Spinjet, IQ-Smart, X-Rite CMM.

Diddler

Im on Blackmagic Pro 5.2.X  its not the current version but suits our needs perfectly. Cant really find a need to upgrade to the latest version.
You can't polish a Turd, but you can roll it in glitter!