Rampage v13 to XMF or Prinergy?

Started by jay12345, December 17, 2014, 02:42:47 PM

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jay12345

What do you guys think. I have sat through demonstrations on both and it seems to me that Prinergy is far ahead of XMF. My fuji rep keeps telling me all of the Kodak horror stories and i know that is a sales tactic but i do not have any experience with Prinergy or Kodak but i also know a lot of you do. Im looking to switch over to Prinergy with Preps or XMF. I will also be purchasing a platesetter so the options they are giving me are Kodaks achieve 400 with single cassette loader or Fuji's Dart 4300. Im looking to go completely chem free. Thanks in advance.
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DigitalCrapShoveler

You know, I don't know what this sales tactic is to shit-talk about the competitor, but it really turns me off. If your product is good, smack-talking is about the last thing you should do, especially if I don't ask. IF I do indeed ask, by all means tell me your horror stories... but to freely just use them to snag a sale just screams desperation.

My Fuji rep did the same thing, and I can honestly tell you, it really, really made me reconsider switching to XMF. Before he voluntarily started talking shit about Prinergy, I was as good as sold on it. After, I decided to call Kodak and have them come in and talk.

At the end of the ordeal, Prinergy ended up winning out because of certain things it could do that XMF can't. It was just a better fit for my company. That was a couple years ago. I haven't seen the Fuji rep since.

I'm not gonna say Fuji is bad... but they have some people that definitely need to learn to keep their mouth shut.
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jay12345

ok great. im not alone. i was really set to switch to xmf as well. but now kodak is looking like the way to go. what are you paying for support and are the software upgrades included? they are telling me that for $621 a month i am basically covered for everything except the hardware when it comes time to replace it. im not too happy about the hardware being dell either. i have had some bad experiences with dells in the past. i hope they have sorted there crap out. thats $7500 annually which doesn't seem too bad considering i was led to believe that number was going to be $24,000.
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David

we have Prinergy here and have never had any issues with the Dell equipment. That being said, we just got 3 new Dell servers to replace the older ones we had.

and you will have a lot of dollar signs with Kodak, that I know for sure.
Prepress guy - Retired - Working from home
Livin' la Vida Loca

jay12345

in what respect? over the $7500 a year service on prinergy w/ preps?
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Joe

Prinergy user here. We switched from Prinergy to XMF last November. We switched back to Prinergy last November as well. I am not going to bad mouth XMF. It is a great workflow but not quite as intuitive as Prinergy. There isn't a doubt in my mind we could have used XMF but basically we were spoiled by already using Prinergy.

The cost of Prinergy is about double+ of XMF. Our FULL support contract with Prinergy/Insite/Preps runs about $23K per year which includes all minor and major updates plus on call support 13 hours a day 5 days a week. Onsite support runs extra. With Fuji that support would have ran about $7500 per year.
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The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

DigitalCrapShoveler

I don't have anything bad to say about XMF, actually, I was quite impressed with a lot of the features. I'm just not a fan of salesman in any way, and to me there is nothing douchier than bad mouthing competition. It's a cheap blow.

I did a demo of XMF, and I can't remember exactly what it was, but there was one major factor that kept me from signing off right away. The sale puke really pissed me off on his bullshit, then Kodak came in and offered Prinergy at the same price as XMF if I signed up by the end of the year. Couldn't turn a deal like that down.

I pay about what Joe does. I have a full service contract, and you will need it. Especially for the first year getting all the bugs and kinks out of the system after install.

One thing I will say about Kodak, they do NOT talk shit. At least the guys I deal with. Very professional and very accommodating.

The Nexpress guys are fucking retards, but the CTP and Prinergy guys are pretty solid.
Member #285 - Civilian

jay12345

#7
is my $7500 quote for service less than yours because i am only getting the entry version without the databasing and a floating license for preps? Because $7500 i can handle. $23k i cant.
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Joe

#8
Sounds like you are getting EVO instead of CONNECT. EVO doesn't have the database so support is a little cheaper. But there are different levels of support. I think they call it plus that is the same as mine except you don't get the major releases of updates. For example if you were running Prinergy 5 you would get 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, etc...but you would have to pay for Prinergy 6. Same with Preps and Insite if you are getting it. $7,500 sounds about right for that level of support for EVO. Before we switched to the FULL support plan I think we were paying around $9K per year but we have CONNECT instead of EVO which would mean it would cost more.

Your support is also based on the features you buy. There is a monthly support fee for every feature that you buy that add up to the total of your support. So the more features you buy the higher your support will be. If after buying Prinergy you decide you need a new feature you will have to pay for that feature plus your support will go up by the monthly support charge of that feature.

KODAK is not a cheap workflow to use. But it is good.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

jay12345

The inside salesman from kodak made it sound like they did away with evo and connect and now they just have the one version of prinergy with or without databasing.  and he also told me that my support included all version upgrades. told me that the next version of insite was due out q2 of 2015 that takes the software to 100% html5 and that i would get that upgrade. so i will have to check back with him tomorrow to see what is going on.
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Joe

Quote from: jay12345 on December 17, 2014, 05:18:43 PMThe inside salesman from kodak made it sound like they did away with evo and connect and now they just have the one version of prinergy with or without databasing.  and he also told me that my support included all version upgrades. told me that the next version of insite was due out q2 of 2015 that takes the software to 100% html5 and that i would get that upgrade. so i will have to check back with him tomorrow to see what is going on.

Let me translate some kodak speak there...."due out q2 of 2015" = might be made available to early production by that time but allow 6 months just to be safe. What does early production mean? It means it is basically beta software that they get people to test and report back. You have to apply for Early Production status and you are not guaranteed to get it. So basically "due out q2 of 2015" means if you are really lucky you might see it in full production in early to mid 2016.

The two Kodak products have always been Prinergy CONNECT had the database and RBA if you want to pay for it while Prinergy EVO does not have the database or RBA. They might have switched the names up but it is still the same thing. Both are called Prinergy though.

And yes I would verify that and get it in writing that you get major version upgrades for that price and not just minor version upgrades. I would bet that price does not cover major version upgrades. If it does we have some bones to pick with someone at Kodak.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

jay12345

OK.. so i just got off the phone with Kodak and this is the story. This past year they did away with the prinergy evo/connect and now it is just connect with or without rba. the difference between evo and connect was the oracal databasing but now everyone gets that and the only difference being the rba. as for the service and support the quote he has given me includes all upgrades of prinergy/insight/preps. including versions. yes i know it is hard to believe but i do have this in writing. the only difference between the plus and advanced service and support is the hardware coverage for the computers. he said they dont typically quote the advanced anymore because you can get the same exact coverage on the hardware through dell for half the price. they will only be taking a support contract with dell in our name and placing the call for us when there is a problem. does this sound legit? i hope so.
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jay12345

oh and how do i get an avatar? is that only for the ELITE? :mrt:
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Ear

I pity da fool who don't have an avatar. :mrt:
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Joe

Quote from: jay12345 on December 18, 2014, 08:29:52 AMoh and how do i get an avatar? is that only for the ELITE? :mrt:

Click here.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.