GRACoL Question

[pspdfppdfxhd]

We recently were requested by an agency to give them the print profile we require to send of pdfs for printing.

Well our proofer is setup with the icc profile: GRACoL20061v2_Coated so we gave them that. They will supply supposedly highly accurate digital proofs for us to match on press with a press approval. They want to see if we are up to their high quality standards.

In my muddled undertanding of color management this would make me think that all rgb to cymk  conversions in photoshop should be using this profile. We've just been using U.S. Prepress defaults for this up till now and getting by ok. However, very few of our jobs are super color critical. And also, when exporting pdfs out of Indesign, I would think that the whole file should be exported with this profile as well, and ignoring embedded profiles. Would that change all of the cmyk separtations for example TAC values?

When we need less TAC for uncoated stock we just convert the coated image to an uncoated profile and this works ok as well.

We've got "older" pressmen here and they are used to struggling on the press to get the color right. Or sometimes we've had to work backwards and alter the values in the files to get the desired result ie. new plates being made. These situations don't happen very often however, like I said, the vast majority of our jobs are not that color critical.

There is no color management running in the rip so it's all done "upstream".

Any thoughts appreciated.

[Joe]

Color Management is not that simple. To do it right is to make everyones monitor (and not just any old cheap monitors), the proof and the press look the same and requires professional equipment with a pro that knows what they are doing that will be making proofs and taking readings followed up by plates being made and ran on press with more readings until at last they all match. Bring your big check book if you want it done right.

Other wise does their monitor match yours? Does both of your monitors match the proof? Does the proof match the press? If the answer to any of these are no...start over.

We have customers all the time asking about this because at some seminar somewhere some consultant brought up 'Color Management ~ the magical solution to making your publication perfect' by H. E. Don'tKnowShit

These people then come out of that seminar thinking all they have to do is get the printers 'magic profile' that doesn't exist on this planet and everything will be all rainbows and unicorns. And sorry if I sound touchy on this subject but it reared its ugly head at work again this week because some Douche Knuckle customer bought the supreme package at the seminar.

[pspdfppdfxhd]

Wow! Quick answer! Kind of what I was expecting as well.

If the owner ever wants to spend the cash to do this right then MAYBE things will run smoother. I've had some experience with color gurus in the past and they are a lot like politicians sometimes... it's hard to get a straight up answer.

As for now we'll just have to play along with them and do our best.

[pspdfppdfxhd]

One of the owners here told me to tell them our presses have 8 percent dot gain. 

This kind of comment makes me realize I DO have some job security.

[pspdfppdfxhd]

"And sorry if I sound touchy on this subject but it reared its ugly head at work again this week because some Douche Knuckle customer bought the supreme package at the seminar."


I actually found this funny. Haven't found much funny in a while.

comedy is tragedy plus time... or distance   from the actual situation they say....

[pspdfppdfxhd]

I remember one guy who came here and insisted that we run profiles on the output in QuarkXpress to pdf. ( In the Quark color management output area, some SWOP output profile).

I thought he must be much smarter than us at the time (was about 15 years ago or so). He claimed our Epson was not setup for color management properly and brought in what he was getting on his cheap desktop printer. God knows how he tweaked that sucker but our Epson looked bad... real bad compared to his "brighter" printout. Not accurate but surely "brighter".

He went somewhere else, I 'd love to know how that worked out for him, but this was my first bad experience with color management.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing?

[pspdfppdfxhd]

Color Management is not that simple. To do it right is to make everyones monitor (and not just any old cheap monitors), the proof and the press look the same and requires professional equipment with a pro that knows what they are doing that will be making proofs and taking readings followed up by plates being made and ran on press with more readings until at last they all match. Bring your big check book if you want it done right.

Other wise does their monitor match yours? Does both of your monitors match the proof? Does the proof match the press? If the answer to any of these are no...start over.

We have customers all the time asking about this because at some seminar somewhere some consultant brought up 'Color Management ~ the magical solution to making your publication perfect' by H. E. Don'tKnowShit

These people then come out of that seminar thinking all they have to do is get the printers 'magic profile' that doesn't exist on this planet and everything will be all rainbows and unicorns. And sorry if I sound touchy on this subject but it reared its ugly head at work again this week because some Douche Knuckle customer bought the supreme package at the seminar.

Might have to do some creative thinking when they call us in a couple of hours on the speaker phone then.

[Ear]

The whole point of color control, within a print shop is: To make the proof look as bad as the press. To use dot-gain compensation on plate, to offset press problems. This way, the plates are helping the pressman run at normal density. The proof shows the client how it will reproduce on YOUR press (not their fucking office printer).

I have showed people my contract spectroproof, only to have them produce a bright proof off their color laser at their office... telling me to match. I hand them their print, and my proof and tell them to adjust their file.

The problem in the industry today is Desktop Publishing. Anyone can make a PDF. They think our proof and press should match their printer. The pros know better but we end up dealing with people who have no knowledge and unrealistic expectations. Yes, the customer is sometimes wrong, and I am just fine telling them about it.

[Joe]

Yes, the customer is sometimes always wrong, and I am just fine telling them about it.

Fixed!

[pspdfppdfxhd]

Well, ended up on conference call with 9 people across Canada / USA and managed to convince them we know what we're doing.

Now we will have to show them we can. Even if we have to  make 4 sets of plates, we'll match their "professional proof" (unless it's all wacked out) and we'll survive the press approval.

If the proof we recieve IS "wacked out" to the pdfs they supply, then I can smell another conference call coming.

[Joe]

Agreeing to matching a customer supplied proof these days is insanity redefined. Back in the day you had Cromalins, Match Prints, Kodak Approvals, etc...that were made with some kind of industry standards but more than likely now they have some fancy 12 color inkjet printed on a glossy super white stock that will be impossible to match. Good luck with that.

[pspdfppdfxhd]

I know, but we do it all the time and I do know how crazy it is.

That's the way they do things and it's a huge multinational company. They will be coming for a press approval so somebody will have to sign it off.

 

[Farabomb]

I see a whole lot of                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

In your future.

[pspdfppdfxhd]

Oh lovely! Something to look forward to!

[pspdfppdfxhd]

We used to print a whole quarterly medical journal here..... assembled pdf ads in Indesign with copy supplied. Each ad came with it's own agency supplied pdf. All different agencies all kinds of proofs.

Had some wild times with that job. Drove the pressmen nuts matching the color. Luckily, only a few complaints from the drug companies, then we had to fiddle with the pdfs in pitstop and or touchup to get it better next time.