Placed PDF color issue

[Farabomb]

I had a job bite me in the ass last week with a placed PDF. It was a 4c job but of course the designer had spot colors in it. I had to place an indicia so I figured drop the PDF in, typeset it, output PDF and be fine. I've done this before without issue and the RIP converted it without issue. Not this time.

The original file had the spot with a CMYK breakdown that was correct. After placing it in Indy and making a PDF it went from the proper CMYK break to Lab values that were totally off. Only reason it was picked up was there was a placed signature with the correct break and there was a noticeable difference. So I converted it on the back but didn't think to correct the front. Clusterfuck ensues because I missed other elements that were still Lab.

Why did it change from CMYK to Lab when I placed it? I looked quick but I didn't see anything in preferences. I want to fix it so it doesn't happen again. I have no color management on the PDF output and prinergy is set to use the values in the file in case the designer tweaks a spot color.

This could be avoided if the designer provided the file as CMYK initially but... 

How hard is it use ink manager and provide it correctly? I failed at my job of prepress on this one but since prepress is no longer just prepress I don't have the time to properly go over files. At least this showed the boss the reasons I need time to do things correctly.... and the importance of a platemaker.

[abc]

My guess here is that that when you made the PDF out of Indesign and asked it to convert the spots, it used the alternate color in the Indesign libraries which are now lab.

I might be completely off the mark, but that's my guess

If you export a PDF without converting to CMYK and preserve the spots, it would be interesting to know what the alternate color space of the Spots is in it, CMYK or Lab.

If it's Lab then I guess that answers the question.

[Joe]

Are you using CS6?

[Farabomb]

That was the first thing I checked in pitstop when the shit hit the fan. The original PDF had the proper CMYK values. When placed in indy it changes the values to Lab but... only on one of the spot colors. There are 2 spots on the original PDF. It leaves one as CMYK but for some reason changed one to Lab.

and of course it's their corporate color and the Lab breakdown doesn't even come close to the CMYK break we have been using in the past.

Yes, CS6.

[Joe]

That was the first thing I checked in pitstop when the shit hit the fan. The original PDF had the proper CMYK values. When placed in indy it changes the values to Lab but... only on one of the spot colors. There are 2 spots on the original PDF. It leaves one as CMYK but for some reason changed one to Lab.

and of course it's their corporate color and the Lab breakdown doesn't even come close to the CMYK break we have been using in the past.

Yes, CS6.

There is your answer. CS6 uses Pantone + LAB values. Be careful when picking up old jobs with spots. You'll get burned.

I have found if I leave the spots in the PDF and let Prinergy change them to CMYK when refining it will use the old Pantone CMYK breakdown. I guess that is because Prinergy is not using Pantone + yet.

[Farabomb]

That doesn't explain why it used the Lab values for one of the spots and left the other as CMYK.

[andyfest]

That doesn't explain why it used the Lab values for one of the spots and left the other as CMYK.

It could be that the one spot was originally placed & defined as CMYK in CS5 or earlier, which CS6 would honour. If the other spot was added in the CS6 app, it would auto-define it in Lab. Just guessin', but I've seen that scenario in Illy files that were originally created in CS5 with CMYK-defined spots, and then new spots were added in CS6 with Lab values, giving us a "mixed" swatch pallette.

[Farabomb]

That could explain it. This designer has told me flat out she has no idea what she is doing and is the first to have the latest CS version.

Great, another fucking thing I have to watch out for. Thank you Adobe.   

[gnubler]

This designer has told me flat out she has no idea what she is doing

That's a first. Most of my "designer" customers are professional experts. I like it when they tell me little tips & tricks, like how to do my job.

[Grimace]

This designer has told me flat out she has no idea what she is doing

That's a first. Most of my "designer" customers are professional experts. I like it when they tell me little tips & tricks, like how to do my job.

Like use JPEGs?

[delooch]

This designer has told me flat out she has no idea what she is doing

That's a first. Most of my "designer" customers are professional experts. I like it when they tell me little tips & tricks, like how to do my job.

Like use JPEGs?

like 1200 dpi jpegs, for image quality 

[Grimace]

This designer has told me flat out she has no idea what she is doing

That's a first. Most of my "designer" customers are professional experts. I like it when they tell me little tips & tricks, like how to do my job.

Like use JPEGs?

like 1200 dpi jpegs, for image quality 

My scanner goes to 2400dpi. I not going waste all that quality!

[DigiCorn]

This designer has told me flat out she has no idea what she is doing

That's a first. Most of my "designer" customers are professional experts. I like it when they tell me little tips & tricks, like how to do my job.

Like use JPEGs?

like 1200 dpi jpegs, for image quality 

1200 degrees of suck, that is.

we all know it's a 72 dpi file and they just typed in 1200 thinking it would upsample to a better file.

[delooch]

we all know it's a 72 dpi file and they just typed in 1200 thinking it would upsample to a better file.

i always thought they were using the new "PIXELATION FILTER" its the latest rage,,

[gnubler]

My customers also like to resave their JPG as a PDF and resubmit it. Pretty clever trick!