Rendering Failure on Blank Pages

Started by Holsinger60, January 23, 2015, 11:56:28 AM

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Holsinger60

We have instances where I need the Front Surface of Sheet 1 to print and the Back Surface of Sheet 2 to print. We go to the Page Mapping and "Insert Blank Pages" (2 of them in this instance) and get everything moved around where it should be (PDF pages mapped to 1 & 4). When we go to render our plates there is an error message saying the surface is blank and the rendering process errors out and won't let us output the plates from the surfaces we need to. It seems like half the time this works with no problem and then there are days where it gives us fits. Does it have anything to do with certain jobs being spot color only? They seem to fail more than jobs that actually have black in them as a color. A lot of the people I'm trying to train on this system are becoming fairly frustrated with this. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong in this scenario?

Ear

I use blank pages all the time. Make sure you turn the blank pages on (active) after adding them. I usually just add them and activate them in the Job Structure mode, as opposed to Mapping mode. They come in as inactive by default.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Holsinger60

By active do you mean the little green arrow pointing towards your plates? If so, they are. Still fails.

Ear

Weird. I just tried a mock job this way and it worked fine for me.

.... re-reading your post, you say the error is "surface is blank", which would indicate the entire plate surface is blank, meaning there is nothing to render. This makes sense. LOL

I just tried it this way and it did give me an error. 

I usually add blank pages but still have active pages on a surface. Have never tried to render an entire surface as blank.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Joe

Why would you need to make plates that are blank?
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

Holsinger60

I'm not making "blank plates". In some instances, I only need the back surface to have plates made on it. There has to be a blank page as a placeholder on the front surface. For instance, let's say the front of the form has a bunch of printing at the top. I need it to move down to get it inbetween our bends. The backer has printing more towards the bottom so it needs to move up to be between our bends. I have to make 2 Sheets due to this. The one for the face is easy enough since I can make that sheet Flatwork, but for the sheet that has the backer I need to have a blank area on the face surface. This is where I'm running into the problem. I've found a little bit of a work around, but it's not something I want to have to do on every job where this occurs.

Farabomb

The web world must be a totally different animal than sheetfed.  :o
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear on April 06, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on April 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AMIt's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Joe

We have webs here. Not really sure what he means. We don't have to do anything like what he has explained with our webs.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

David

nor do we, and we've had web presses for years.
Prepress guy - Retired - Working from home
Livin' la Vida Loca

Holsinger60

Alright. Maybe I'm just a moron. I've attached screen shots about what I'm trying to explain. On Sheet 1 I have to "split the gap" on the face. So the backer and the face aren't on the same sheet. So Sheet 2 has a Blank Page for the face and then the backer PDF  (And yes, I realize I could split the back too but our pressmen don't want us to split things if we don't have to). If I'm going about this all wrong, then by all means enlighten me. I'm not an Impo guru which is apparently obvious. I just kind of got thrown into this position of having to get this new workflow going.  All help is appreciated.

David

No, you're not a moron, it's just we don't do our web runs like you do. That is not unusual in the printing biz. Somebody somewhere is doing the same stuff but doing it in a completely different way.

I notice your sheet is bigger than the plate (around the cylinder). Also, are you doing a half web?
Prepress guy - Retired - Working from home
Livin' la Vida Loca

Holsinger60

It'll look like that when when splitting the gap. I have to add an extra image and adjust it to get inbetween our bends. And we just have our paper width set up at the max in our templates. Some jobs will be 1 across and others will be 2.

Farabomb

Quote from: david on January 26, 2015, 09:47:00 AMSomebody somewhere is doing the same stuff but doing it in a completely different way.

This is so true and I can rarely get it through the boss's head. I finally got him to stop making me impose stuff that's being printed elsewhere.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear on April 06, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on April 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AMIt's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Diddler

Quote from: Holsinger60 on January 23, 2015, 11:56:28 AMWe have instances where I need the Front Surface of Sheet 1 to print and the Back Surface of Sheet 2 to print. We go to the Page Mapping and "Insert Blank Pages" (2 of them in this instance) and get everything moved around where it should be (PDF pages mapped to 1 & 4). When we go to render our plates there is an error message saying the surface is blank and the rendering process errors out and won't let us output the plates from the surfaces we need to. It seems like half the time this works with no problem and then there are days where it gives us fits. Does it have anything to do with certain jobs being spot color only? They seem to fail more than jobs that actually have black in them as a color. A lot of the people I'm trying to train on this system are becoming fairly frustrated with this. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong in this scenario?
You are getting the error because you have a blank page slot in 2 & 3. Every page slot must have a page assigned to it or you will get the error. If you insert a blank page in your reading order and assign it to pages 2 & 3 it will fix your problem. It has nothing to do with colour but XMF is telling you it is the lack of colour i.e.: a blank slot not assigned. 
You can't polish a Turd, but you can roll it in glitter!

Holsinger60

That's what's throwing me off though. I've got blank pages inserted into my Reading Order and they are pointing to the plates (which is what I'm assuming means they're assigned). It will still error out.