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Author Topic: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)  (Read 3991 times)

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JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« on: September 17, 2009, 10:25:45 AM »
I have recently decided to play with JDF and have practically given up; right now I can't see the advantage. I did some testing and watched the Rampage-Preps JDF videos and read the book and ran into these issues:

1) If you need take off bars you have to make a new template in Preps, hence a new jdf template, hence extra steps to accomplish what could have been completed already the old way. I thought the idea behind jdf was to drop in a bunch of standard templates you could use and reuse at will to save time?

2) How can you customize creep in a jdf book? Must it be done in the run list in Preps prior to the Rampage stripping portion of the job? If you run several different stocks of paper, then see #1 above for issues with custom creep.

2a) If you have crossovers and need to turn creep off for one spread see issue #1 above.

3) I tried to use jdf to impose a 32-page book. Normally in Preps I would make one 8-page template and let Preps auto-select to dupe the template 4 times and using the saddle-stitch setting it would drop the pages in the correct order. When I tried jdf in Rampage, it made pages 1-8 on the first sig, 9-16 on the second and so on; I had to manually assign the pages to the correct slots. Does this mean I had to make 4 templates in Preps and number them 1-32 prior to jdf? Again, extra time, yada yada yada...
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Offline Skryber

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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2009, 11:43:32 AM »
I find that the JDF options are really only worth it if you have a job that comes in regularly that uses the same imposition. We don't have jobs like that anymore.
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Offline Falstaff

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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 06:54:53 PM »
I see you have Rampage 10.4 and Preps 5.3.3, I was told that these two versions don't play nice. Are you having any troubles?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 07:26:51 PM by Falstaff »

Offline frailer

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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2009, 07:44:02 PM »
FWIW, which may be little, have just had an answer to a PREPS/JDF question. Pasted here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Patrick Kerr, Preps subject matter expert at Kodak, says that version 6 of Preps supports MIME JDF.

Not sure what this means to us..... Let me know if there's anything I can help with.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What it does mean, apparently, according to out Fuji support guy is that PREPS 6 does not need a support Marks'n'stuff folder to be able to access on the workflow server. It can bring all necessary marks/data in with the JDF file. I don't believe this was the case for 5.3.3.
Could have an effect on the concerns raised above; may not.    :undecided:

If the pages aren't 'flowing' properly, sounds like the Template that the JDF has on-board is a simple repeat of the 8p'er x 4. Maybe you have to save the whole impo in PREPS as a 32 pp JDF. Then you may be able to have your way with it in Rampage. We're more interested in the late-page-replacement capability of a PREPS 6 JDF inside XMF. Mark tweaking etc. we're not so fussed about. I'm starting to stab around in the murk now...I'll shaddup.   :laugh: 
What I do know is that the PREPS 6 upgrade from 5.3.3 would be about $700 cheaper than a second impo seat on our XMF Client. Plus, all eggs not in the one basket.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 08:11:45 PM by frailer »
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Offline Falstaff

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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2009, 09:33:26 PM »
I have a template that has 16 pages of blanks, no marks & no text. Preps makes a JobName.jdf with a Folder "JDFMarksFlats" with a JobName.pdf in it.

I drop the .jdf into Rampage and it errors that it cannot find the Marks. The JDFMarksFlats Folder is in the same folder as the .jdf.

WTF am I doing wrong?

Offline frailer

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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2009, 09:42:27 PM »
I doubt you are doing anything wrong, assuming it is not a MIME JDF. Sounds like you need a Marks Folder to be placed on the server, so that PREPS can access them. Assuming a few things here, of course, about versions etc. "Same folder as the .jdf" is the MIME situation...which it sounds like you don't have.   :undecided:

« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 09:43:41 PM by frailer »
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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2009, 12:29:56 AM »
Knowing less than nothing about RAMPAGE I'll take a stab at this anyway. The attached screen shot is my JDF info printed from Preps 5.3.3 to a folder named Test. In it is the JDF file and a folder named "JDFMarksFlats" with the Marks PDF inside of it. Back when I was testing using JDF with Nexus...it could not find the marks either. I learned there was a place in the Nexus JDF module where you had to add the network path drive where all of your Marks files would end up. For example, if you had a network share where you printed all of your JDF's to named "My JDF Jobs" that resided on Server1 you would have to enter the path as

//Server1/My JDF Jobs

It made little sense why it had to be that way since the Marks folder is in the same folder as the JDF but it would not work without this path being input into the JDF module. RAMPAGE may not have anything like this but I thought I would take a stab in the dark.
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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 02:14:26 AM »

It made little sense why it had to be that way since the Marks folder is in the same folder as the JDF but it would not work without this path being input into the JDF module.

Pretty much what our Fuji guy was driving at. Something to do with "Macs can see PCs, but Windows can't see Macs". This was a throwaway line from him; but in essence he seemed to be talking about such a path. It was in the middle of XMF install mayhem.  :shocked:
Please don't ask me to support, refute or explain, the above quote.   :laugh:

« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 02:20:49 AM by frailer »
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Offline DCurry

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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 07:23:19 AM »
2a) If you have crossovers and need to turn creep off for one spread see issue #1 above.

Click the Scale button when assigning the creep in Preps and it will horizontally scale the pages instead of shifting them, so any crossovers will remain intact. The amount of scaling is very minor so it shouldn't even be noticeable.
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Offline Falstaff

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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 09:17:47 AM »
For example, if you had a network share where you printed all of your JDF's to named "My JDF Jobs" that resided on Server1 you would have to enter the path as

//Server1/My JDF Jobs


This makes sense. The path inside the jdf file is technically accurate for the Marks location (see your example). It is not the correct path in actuality (appletalk@Server/My JDF Jobs). When I get in to work I'll have to find out how to modify the path.

Offline Farabomb

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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2009, 01:25:37 PM »
I'm disappointed in the automated workflow options that were touted in my new Prinergy system. I don't have enough jobs that are exactly the same to make it work well. Even the monthly I do has differing page counts so it doesn't work. Nevermind that I have the same issue stated above with the impositions. I ran a test on the last one and damn if the "workflow" didn't screw up the page positions.  :blowup:
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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2009, 01:48:40 PM »
Same thing here. Differing page counts are THE major obstacle to automation. What would help a bit would be if APA/RBA could make the pageset and automatically resize as more pages are input. Kodak can't see it though.

Are you using JDF's instead of PJTF's from Preps and the imposition is wrong with JDF's? What version of Prinergy are you using? (You've probably mentioned the version before but I have a short memory :laugh: )
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Re: JDF, Preps and Rampage (oh my!)
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2009, 02:26:07 PM »
I've been using the .pjtf's from the get go because the install guys said it better fits what I'm doing. I'm running EVO 5.0 right now. It's not the end of the world, I don't like the hands off approach that much. I can see how the worklfows can help a little but that's for later. We're moving shop shortly so the last thing I want to do is change things up right now.  :wink:

I did talk to the install guys and one of them set up a yearbook printer. From what he told me there is no prepress department there. Everything is automated to the point of where the files are sent for remote plating through their statewide plants depending on load. It's wonderful for them but seems useless to us.  :rolleyes:
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Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
               
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