We had a LP68 with the same exact problem.

As someone stated earlier, the relay is sticking in the "on" position. The relay is a "sealed relay" that is soldered onto the main board. You have to replace the main board, which is actually two boards sandwiched together.

It was hit or miss if the pump would stay on. Sometimes it would just run for a couple of days, or in our case it was stuck on for 3 weeks. I would only turn the processor on when I had plates to output. I was afraid I would burn up the pump.

We narrowed it down to these options:

#1 Replace the board: The cost of a LP68 Pre Box Sandwich Board (eb+59073010) was $2939.38. Agfa estimated 2 hours to replace the board. Total cost about $4000.

#2 Repair the board: The relay is made by Zettler (AZ2692-071-52, 12 volt, 8 amp, five contacts). You could possibly remove the board and have someone manually replace the relay.

#3 Install a on/off timer switch on the pump

#4 Find a junked LP68 for parts

#5 Replace the LP68 with a new LP85 Processor: Cost approx $15000 to $20000

#6 Replace the whole thing with a new Avalon running Azura TS plates: This is what we did.



I just went through this a few months ago and I still have my notes. I hope this helps.

I have worked on a couple of catalogs containing various "sex toys"

QuoteWe are not allowed to send out our FSC logo with the COC number on it

Dave, is that a decision made by your company or is that procedure outlined in the FSC Guidelines??

For those that are FSC certified:

Do you supply your FSC label to the customer so they can place it into the artwork
or
Do you place the label yourself into the customers artwork??


On a side note, I got the new FSC label guidlines and they changed the color from PMS 378 to PMS 626. Here is the fun part, the CMYK values they have specifically listed for PMS 626 are C=100, M=60, Y=100, K=20.

280% Ink Coverage, for a PMS Color -- Awesome!!

Quote.they were clueless

Wanna know how many times we have been emailed another persons logo usage approval??

Got one today for some job in Spanish. It wasn't our job, but it did get approval...I guess that's nice.

How can they screw that up?? Just hit REPLY to their email.

Maybe I am in the wrong business.

What bugs my about FSC is that they expect nothing short of perfection from us in keeping track of every sheet of paper, logo usage, yadda, yadda, yadda.

On the other hand, their paper work is a mess, trying to get a straight answer on a question is difficult, the rules of logo usage seem to be constantly changing.

They just setup this "new" portal with a "new" label generator. The labels that this generator creates are in Arial. The previous label generator created labels in Frutiger which according to their FSC Product Labeling Guide is correct.

These "new" labels in Arial are a mess. Whatever they created them in, they have clicked the bold type style because every one has text with a stoke around it. When you zoom in they just look horrible.

I am guessing that somebody got the original files, opened them up on their PC, didn't have Frutiger loaded, substituted Arial without knowing it, made their changes and viola!! new labels.

 :angry:

and this....

QuoteWhat I'm trying to do it convey to the Plant Manager why a 50% screen shouldn't read a 50% when measuring dot area on the press sheet.

The first time I talked to the my Shop Owner, Production Manager and Lead Pressman about that, they looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my eyes.

I think you are doing the right thing by bringing in outside help such as Kodak.

One thing I learned a long time ago that I have never forgotten, "We print dots, not solids"

Am I the only one that gets pissed off when I get a packaging or pocket folder job with a Die Line where the entire job is built in Quark or to a lesser extent InDesign.

These knuckleheads will build a Die Line in Illustrator, place it into Quark then align their artwork to the "preview" of the Die Line in Quark. 

Inevitably the die line is screwed up and I got to fix it in the EPS then when it updates it changes position and I gotta realign it back to the artwork.

I just had a job if it was built in Illustrator I could of fixed it in less than one minute. But no, lets build it in Quark, and now I got 45 minutes into the damn thing.

Just build the damn thing in Illustrator. You have the ability to line up the artwork EXACTLY to the die line. F**king USE IT!!!!!!!!!

There I feel better, Thanks.  :smiley:

QuoteI am simply stating Percentage-wise the math is wrong. Point-wise it IS correct.

David explained it quite well, when talking dot gain it is referred to as Points.

Screw coffee, how about a beer.

QuoteIf you are in fact getting a 70 read on your 50, you will probably see plugging in the shadows, most presses today will yield less than that, like in the 12-15 point gain

A lot of the larger printers around where I am are switching over to GRACOL. According to the GRACOL 2007 specs the TVI or Dot Gain for Grade #1 & #2 paper is Y=18%, M=20%, C=20%, K=22%.

If you are running GRACOL, then your Black will read as 72% on the press sheet. You will not see plugging in the Shadows if you monitor your Print Contrast which GRACOL says should be at 40.

Anyone notice that GRACOL & Pantone Color Bridge have roughly the same print specs??

QuoteI don't know where this guy figures his math, but I am not even with that.

Check his website out, I doubt he has the math wrong.

QuoteIf a digital dot WITHOUT a curve in it reads 50%, then you are reading it at 60% of the Press sheet to make it easier... that is 20% dot gain. The 50% dot is PHYSICALLY 20% larger than it originally was.

Your making it too complicated, it's just face value. Trust me.

QuoteThat's what I was always taught as far as dot gain.

You are correct.

QuoteIt's funny. The other colors appeared within tolerance. The magenta was reading the 63 at the 50% and 35 at the 25%. Have you seem stock affect just one color? Does it have to do with that process color's pigment affected my the cheap paper (which it is cheap paper).

I could be stock, ink or press. That narrow's it down, huh??  :grin:

QuoteWhat is an acceptable range when it comes to target dot gains?

If you are running something close to SWOP which most printers do without knowing it, then your dot gains at the 50% dot are Y=18, C=20, M=20, K=22.

We run a little less than that here: 12, 16, 16, 22.

Quotethey fluctuate quite a bit from stock to stock

Yes, the will. Mainly between coated and uncoated.

QuoteBut what is acceptable fluctuation?

With comparable stocks +or- 3%.

QuoteIf my target is to read a 68 at the 50% for a gloss stock, would a reading of 63 be something to worry about?

A little bit. It's outside the 3% range. However, due to sheet coverage this could happen.

I'll disagree with DCS. Let's take black for example which will have a dot gain of approx 22% in most cases. A 50% BLACK WILL READ AS 72% ON THE PRESS SHEET.

When your densitometer reads dot gain it actually reads both the Physical and Optical Dot Gain. The Optical Dot Gain is calculated using the Murray-Davies equation.

See this link to color expert Bruce Lindbloom website:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_DotGain.html

Quoted from the Lindbloom website:
"Dot gain is the difference between the actual printed dot and the ideal digital dot. For example, a pixel may indicate a 50% dot, but after printing, it is measured to be 70%, showing a "dot gain" of 70 - 50 = 20%."

QuoteWell maintained, high end litho sheetfed press (Komori, Mitsi, Heidl etc)
8 - 15% depending on stock (with 8% being on gloss art & 15% on uncoated) unless it's a UV press where you can add around 10%.

This is why your plates should have a bump curve applied. Most people use linear plates IMHO that is wrong.

Lets use the Pantone Color Bridge / coated for example.

It is printed with 18% dot gain in the Cyan.

In my setup a 50% cyan, will be 54% on the plate, will print as 66% on press. The target would be 68% (18% Dot Gain). The cyan actually produces 12% dot gain, the bump curve on the plates gives me the other 4% for a total of 16% dot gain.

In a linear plate setup with a new press that has, say, 10% dot gain.
A 50% cyan will be 50% on the plate, will print as 60% on the press. The target is 68%. That 8% difference is why you can't hit the Color Bridge colors.

QuoteAhh. So if I'm reading 68 at the 50% then that would be a 9% dot gain?

No. That would be 18% dot gain.

QuoteYes it's not afffected or yes it's affected??

Density and Dot Gain are independent. You could have identical Density readings result in different dot gains due to packing, paper, squeeze, plates, etc.

Like DCS said, there isn't too much of a difference between 1.8 and 1.7.

QuoteI'm out there daily checking things (mainly because I have really strange dot gain fluctuations going on...but that's a different thread).

Now that seems like a bigger problem.