Any idea if they still going to allow exporting of formula guides into Adobe creative suite applications?

ie:
buy the uncoated and coated books. 
use code on back/inside of the books with Pantone Colour Manager application [app is now activated when you use the code(s)]
export  the formula guides into the creative suite applications (illy, indesign, photoshop) to have a recent set of colours and not a set from... creative suites release?

Quote from: Joe on December 02, 2021, 12:15:03 PM
If Dov was dead he would be rolling in his grave.

I outline fonts as necessary with Pitstop. I don't lose any sleep over it. There are not enough hours in the day to outline all fonts in all jobs on all pages that we do.

As far as illustrator we don't do that because we have no need to. Acrobat and Pitstop will fix most everything.

Indeed he would be.
(sorry!, not sorry..)

I work on one file at a time and outlining is just part of the final steps, so it's probably different for say magazine, book or calendar work.. never worked on anything but packaging.

Pitstop we had installed at a prior workplace and no one ever used it, or even mentioned it and no training was ever done on it (tho we had 2 full licenses..)  (was using Pinergy workflow)

Currently it looks like we once had pitstop here but no longer and trying to get management to fork over the minor $$$ for it and training is like pulling teeth. (Esko workflow)
It seems like an amazing tool.. wish I knew more about it.

For changes on files here it's mostly just copy changes, copy position changes, image replacement or colour corrections.
I'm sure Pitstop can do all this but I'll never know  :cry:


also, congrats on the retirement at the end of the year.

Not going to be a popular position... but sure glad we outline our fonts on jobs prior to rip/trap.
No need to worry about them if changes are requested.
and... we open the final trapped .pdfs in Illustrator if art or copy changes are needed  *gasp*  (via Esko Plugin)

I have read Dov's and Gordos exhaustive posts about how outlining fonts is bad and how opening .pdfs in illustrator is bad but its how every company i have ever worked for has been doing it  for 16+ years.
Never had a single issue yet (that anyone/ the customer have noticed and no issues on press or with the printed carton)

Unless we need to change the copy... then its a terrible practice.
If this occurs we pray the customer supplied fonts with their source art.. most don't and supply either corrupted fonts or no fonts or outlined files... its a mixed bag.
If some of the supplied fonts are PS Type 1.. we get to say, nope sorry as of X date these fonts are no longer supported and will not load in our creative suite. please supply new art.
(I work in packaging)

Now our current font library ... guess i should take a look at see whats in Suitcase Fusion 6

Quote from: DCurry on October 12, 2021, 05:49:09 AM
If you were in your 20s would you get into printing?

Not a chance in hell.
Better paying careers with more opportunities for growth exist today
(for Prepress that is.  Pressmen seem to make a nice hourly wage but the shift work must suck and the working conditions vary greatly from place to place)

Personally I find there are not a lot of places here in Ontario that want to pay more than Ontario's minimum wage for prepress work.
Lots of smaller 'mom n pop' places versus larger print companies.

If you do find something that pays well (something you can pay the bills with and put gas in the car.. if you can afford a car) then you either need to move to an expensive city (Toronto or surrounding parts... Burlington and Hamilton are getting expensive rent wise and home wise)
or commute 45mins - 1hr+ each way. every day.

so again, not a chance in hell.
(been in prepress for 16 years now)

-derp-

Tried with Esko Automation Engine 18.1.1 and our basic trapping ticket ...surprise surprise it would not trap it.

Had to go into the trap settings and tell it to stop ignoring bitmaps and then it trapped the file.

Was off for 2 weeks late March out of precaution (Wife works at a Hospital and her direct supervisor (a doctor) travelled and was ordered to stay home, 3 days after coming into work and supervising her and her staff...) so she was ordered off and since we live in the same house so was I.

Went out shopping a few times for essentials and people are morons. They cannot follow simple instructions or GIANT red arrows and do not know what 6 feet is.
To the lady coughing all over the frozen food isle without a mask or covering your mouth with your sleeve... your a gem. Die in a fire.

We are deemed Essential as we do food packaging (among other things)
Came back to 96+ jobs waiting all with a dead line of May 1 to May 6.  ( I am the only prepress person, my co-worker does inks and plates and layouts/impositions)
All the jobs are complex, clipping paths needed on every damn image so Esko can trap the images to the Pantone background or total dumpster fires which need a ton of re-work in order to be salvageable.
Every 3 jobs out 5 more come in... S.O.S   

Working OT most nights just to keep up and keep the 2 presses fed. (for free, Im Salary)

At least the traffic is decent [1 hour 20min commute (each way) trimmed to 50mins]
Gas is cheap too!

Stay Safe and Healthy out there.
Thank God It's Friday.
Time for Whisky!

Hm,

Photoshop is definitely not my thing. 
I will have to look into this option further.

If you still need to create the knock out (which would still require a tight path no?)
and trap in photoshop is that faster than just creating a path and letting AE trap the file once placed in the file?
or just a thought on another option on how to create the image in the first place? : )

-C2V

*edited x2

So finally got off the phone with an expert at Esko (in relation to trapping specifically)

After a few days he could not get the images I supplied him to trap.
(Without having to create paths via photoshop or within Illustrator using the white under print tool)

He tried a variety of different ticket options and used the trap suite of tools esko offers outside and inside of illustrator.
he also tried other applications (such as ArtPro) and apparently other RIPS (tho he neglected to mention which) and none of them trapped the file (& images) i sent uniformly / properly (or at all in most cases)

The final verdict is to create clipping paths (in photoshop) around the images which will be trapped via ticket.
Until then he is keeping the set of files sent and using it as a training opportunity and speaking with his co workers and higher ups regarding getting AE to trap images without the need for a clipping path to define the image edge.
(I have no idea if this will bring any change about) but he is aware competitors have options which trap to images without the need for paths around each image and it ["keeps us on our toes"] and ["competitive"]

He did mention that our prepress  (aka: me) cannot be the only ones experiencing this issue.
(i tend to agree) and that he would like to get this addressed in the future if possible
(thanks buddy! us one man prepress people would build a statue in your name)

Till then, I am a slave to the pen tool (and am at the mercy of the artist/designer)
(I should probably put that in my sig..)

Thanks all for the help and general knowledge.

C2V

HI,

Yes definitely crude but it does trap (now if this is 'enough trap' can depend on the printer.  We use 0.003") but some trap is still better than no trap.

Good to have another trick in the tool box.

Thanks!
C2V

PrepressN00b:

Sounds exactly like the feature we need here!
Esko has a tool in Illustrator that creates a white under print but it does a god awful job and needs so much adjusting that you might as well just create a clipping path in photoshop in the first place.

Andyfest:

Interesting idea. would it work? I suppose in a pinch and based on the image your duplicating and enlarging by 1%.

Currently I have an expert Esko tech looking over the file(s) in question and they are tweaking our trap ticket for better results.
Its been awhile since I have heard from them, but they were doing it in their off time (at home) so I don't want to rush them.
I'll post back here when they get back to me and see if whatever they are tweaking / advice they give helps.

I haven't ran it through Prinergy (as we do not have it here) but I worked with Prinergy for years  and can count on one hand how many files i had to create a path around images in order for it to trap the image/background.  (maybe 3 times in 5+ years)

I am assuming it would trap just fine

Still going over these 2 files with Esko Support.

They have the files and after a very quick look they suggested I take an advanced trapping class so they can better assist me on how to trap these files.

I know how to trap these files if it comes down to it, it may not be pretty or fast but it works.
It just takes a large amount of time and the suggestions they have made do not work great.
They will trap the images in question but over trap the rest of the file or mess with trapping totally.

My intent was to try and save time / not bill our customer (or eat the cost) for the extra hour(s) of clipping paths / masks and relaying of their files in order for our workflow to trap their files when other workflows  (prinergy and rampage for example) would trap this files images without all the extra steps..

Still waiting on their reply on if they even tried to trap the file sent to them using the methods they suggested to me and info on how much their advanced trapping class costs. Every little bit of information helps! 

I am still set on that this is a Esko issue where the trapper will not trap images to pantones without a defined edge being present in either /both of the objects its trying to trap.
They won't comment on my thoughts and seem to dance around it in their replies which makes me suspicious.
(We had opened a ticket in 2015 regarding the same issue and it seems its never been resolved)

Time to play the wait for a reply game
Thanks for all the assistance and messages regarding this post and these files. 


----------

Esko got back and mentioned they trapped these images by separating the photoshop image into 2 parts:  (1) Image & (2) drop Shadow then  layering them in illustrator.   Then using the White Underprint tool to create a path around the image (which is a MESS initially) then using the smooth tool they smoothed out and manipulated the path to fit the image (in illustrator)
Then sent the file through a trap ticket.
It traps, but its not a super clean trap/edge (not as clean as using the pen tool in photoshop)

I had mentioned to them if I need to edit paths why not just create a smooth one in the first place in photoshop?
(and as a added bonus the White Underprint tool will follow that path and be nice and clean!..in case I needed to use it)

So it looks like there is no efficient/quick way to create a path that AE recognizes to trap process images to pantones.
(sadly)
this seems like a major hole in the software when there are other workflows that do not need paths and trap images to pantones just fine.

Time to speak to the boss about billing more per file based on the need to create paths per image supplied & try to educate the artist/designers about clipping paths and layering of images in their source files.  (ha, good luck right) : )

-C2V

Good idea.
I will give that a shot  : )

No I have not, if its ever built in photoshop I'll give it a shot.

Right now the backgrounds are built in illustrator (built' aka: one giant rectangle)

I ended up just creating clipping paths around the images in each item, the creating a knock out file thats 2-4 pixels constricted.
Placing them both in illustrator and being done with it.
Not THAT time consuming if its 8 images, but once the other 28 items (112 images to create paths on.....) ..that is another story.

Once we send these 2 items out I am going to email the designer and  try to get them to follow what I did but...its a crap shoot as you all know.
(since the customer is no longer using the best graphics house and settled for someone/some company whom is much cheaper and ... it shows) as is adds a lot of extra non chargeable time on my end.. story of prepress right?