Sword Plates and Staccato... not fun

[Aaron]

Anyone else using the Sword P45 plates and running staccato?

Here is our issue. We recently upgraded from Brisque to Prinergy and in the deal, switched from Fuji PJ plates to the Sword P45 plates. We could run the Fuji plates all day long with no issues. We running about 99% FM (20 micron for coated sheets and 25 micron for uncoated.

Well since the switch the Kodak plates we've noticed a lot of inconsistencies about these plates. We can run a job today and a month later if we have a re-print of the same job, the color is way off. I have had to adjust the plates curves a number of times because the magenta would be through the roof or the cyan would all of a sudden be dropping out.

Then we started getting some kind of contamination on press. These weird worm looking patterns in the background screens (even happened when a Kodak tech was here, he had no idea what it was).

I know the press can be the issue, but it seems we had no problems with the Fuji plates (or they are just a lot more forgiving).

I have an ICPlate 2 reader and when I read my plate control strip, they can read 3-5% different from one day to the next or from morning to afternoon. Should I be getting readings this inconsistent?

Anyone else having problems with like these??

The plate manager thinks it's the synthetic gum that's used in the processor. He thinks it doesn't store the plates well and if a set of plates sit in the plate drawer for a week before printing the job, the gum has blinded the screens some.

HELP!! I feel like we are getting no help from Kodak. I find something and they say, nah that's not it.

[pmhapp]

Been down that road.  Kicked 'em out, brought in the Fuji plates.

[LRob]

Aaron,
We saw the issue from skid to skid. We would had a skid of plates that was ok and then a new skid that was bad. The other problem might be the deference between the plate curves the brisque has and the Prinergy harmony curves. We have Plate curve set to none and print curve set to our harmony curve. I know that if you use both you will get some funky stuff. Our issue was across all colors, not color specific. That tells me that it may be the curve thing. We still get a bad skid of plates , but not as bad as before. The other issue was where the plate was made. Kodak has 2 manufactures they use. One of which did not have as good of plates as the other....so we were told.
We also use 850S plate finisher, but our plates don't set for a week. The other thing is Kodak switched our scrubbers in the processor to brushes.

Hope this helps

[Aaron]

Yeah we use one curve as well. And it can be all the colors. I actually noticed the cyan and magenta the most but that was probably just because those colors were the most noticeable. I got way different TVI's when I was  measuring a test run today then what I got a month ago.

Yeah from what they told me, the P45's were made in the Georgia plant.

Does anyone have a conductivity gauge on there processor with the Sword plate?? I had one with the Fuji plates and I can't believe they don't have one with the Sword. I know they say it doesn't need one but the way these plates fluctuate it seems it may be necessary for running staccato.

Yeah we got the brushes in the processor too. They told us it was better for staccato. LRob, did you have these problems with the scrubbers?

[LRob]

Yep and the only thing it did was make the processor easer to clean. Don't have to replace the scrubbers every time. You may want to talk to your kodak rep about the new plate they have out or coming out. I hear it is better and last longer on long runs. I can remember what it's called.

[Aaron]

You mean the ultra grain? I thought they weren't good for staccato?

I get nowhere with Kodak rep's.

[LRob]

You mean the ultra grain? I thought they weren't good for staccato?

I get nowhere with Kodak rep's.

No, that is what we started with. I'll try to remember to ask my rep. He has been good about being on our side w/ this stuff. He wants us to switch, but we have everything stable right now and PM doesn't want ANYTHING to change.

[Aaron]

So your problems are gone? Or just not as bad?

[LRob]

Gone

[Aaron]

Update:

The Kodak Rep has been here since Tuesday. He has found a number of issues with the processor and a minor tweak with the Magnus and have since fixed them. A lot better now!!

Without going into detail the processor was setup a bit off, so it's right on now (regenorator rate was off and rollers where set a bit uneven). I am getting the readings I should with the plates and will be monitoring it and Kodak said they will keep a close eye on it as well.

Very pleased with the Tech they sent. Very smart and I have learned a lot from him.

I will keep everyone updated on my situation.

[pmhapp]

Do you have an update Aaron.  We may be faced with some ... changes, and I'd want to be prepared.

[Aaron]

Well... not really. Been having a couple issues with consistency still. I will know more at the end of the week. I don't want to bash anyone at the moment because all the Kodak tech's and specialist have been great to work with. I'm just not sure this plate will be able to handle staccato... in our plant at least. Maybe we are having another issue. Not sure. Just know I am kind of still chasing plate curves. But I have some tests to run at the end of this week and beginning of next week.
 

[G_Town]

What micron size are you using?

[Aaron]

None at the moment. We are running 200lpi until we can get some plate stability. But we were running 20 micron for coated and 25 micron for uncoated.

[Tracy]

I use the p45 plates w brisque
I just got thru a huge problem, It started right b4 the plate change.
faint scan lines printing was the problem.
The solution was turning the power of the laser down.
Different problem but may be related to the plate changeover.