Hi there.
We have been working only with Corel and Quite Imposing.
Recently XMF arrived and we had like... 3h of trainning.
Been successfuly implementing and creating templates, except for books.
We're trying to use XMF for digital printing also, not only for plates.
Been strugling with how to create booklets with different number of pages on the same book (example - 4x16 and 1x12 pages)
Manual doesn't help, videos... can't find much.
Can anyone give us a little help? Even if it's a video for a similar software. We don't mind trying to replicate on our environment, just need to know where to start.
Thanks in advance.
Are you trying to create saddle stitch templates for the Press?
I think I may know why you are having an issue
Are you trying to create a template with different sheet sizes?
Sounds like you can create 1 sheet with an impo on it and having trouble with adding more.
At the bottom left you can see the sheet, you need to right click and add another or click flow auto.
If you can post some screen shots I will be able to help you out more.
Bookwork is quickly done using pagination mode.
Quote from: Tracy on February 04, 2019, 11:30:52 AMAre you trying to create saddle stitch templates for the Press?
I think I may know why you are having an issue
Are you trying to create a template with different sheet sizes?
Hi there. No, same sizes, just saddle and stitch.
What we can't do is having different number of pages per booklet in a Book.
:)
Quote from: Diddler on February 04, 2019, 11:45:55 PMSounds like you can create 1 sheet with an impo on it and having trouble with adding more.
At the bottom left you can see the sheet, you need to right click and add another or click flow auto.
If you can post some screen shots I will be able to help you out more.
Bookwork is quickly done using pagination mode.
Hi!
Yes, saddle and stitch. I know how to add more pages, just wanted to know how to make the booklets with different number of pages per group on the same book.
But I will try to grab some snapshots if that helps.
And thank you!
So, I got it!
As I was testing it again to send you some snapshots, I figured it out!
"Assembling Sections" - This is where to go to separate the pages in groups, so the saddle and stitch works along the book with different number of pages. If someone as me doesn't know, here it is.
It's really simple and I was overthinking it.
And thank you very much for your quick support!
Diddler mentioned pagination mode, very handy for books!
It works with stripping sheet templates
XMF has imposition templates and stripping sheet templates
the stripping sheet templates need to be exactly how you need them
for pagination mode and the templates are not editable when you use them in pagination mode.
but Pagination mode makes sense out of complex jobs, different sheet sizes etc..
Glad you worked it out out. As Tracy mentioned Pagination mode once you are used to it is really quick and effective.
We are all here to help anytime.
Quote from: Tracy on February 05, 2019, 11:38:57 AMDiddler mentioned pagination mode, very handy for books!
It works with stripping sheet templates
XMF has imposition templates and stripping sheet templates
the stripping sheet templates need to be exactly how you need them
for pagination mode and the templates are not editable when you use them in pagination mode.
but Pagination mode makes sense out of complex jobs, different sheet sizes etc..
Hi tracy. Back to this subject now from the stripping pages template point of view as you both mentioned.
I've been fiddling around the stripping page templates but thinking if there is a quicker way to separate stuff.
Example for digital printing:
- Book with 60 pages (3x 16 pages + 1x 12 pages)
- Pages size: A4
- Paper printing size: SRA3
- Created a stripping sheet template with F4-1, saved it;
- Added the signature based on the template, for 16 pages;
- Added other 16 pages but if I don't manual add a section divider it joins all 32 pages on the same "saddle stich";
Do I still have to manually divide sections in order to work? Or this division is supposed to happen on the sheet's or sheet's groups?
I suppose the sheet's panel is to divide/group signatures with the same configurations (color, paper, etc)...
Thanks again, in advance.
You will need to create a stripping sheet template for the 16pg and one for the 12pg
Have it all set up how you want it, I am assuming you are not using pagination mode correct?
since you are using the same sheet size for the 16 and the 12 you will be ok.
so when you add the 12 pg you will need to go to sheets and add the 12pg template there not signatures
I will report back shortly, day just starting!
:laugh: ok just looked up sra3 paper size, if your running this as 1 spread digitally I don't see why
you would need separate templates, maybe I'm not understanding, you need a 60pg book saddle stitch correct?
if so 1 template should work.
let me know and I will post screen shots!
Hello there!
Yes, it's for digital printing in this case.
Lets simplify it and pretend it's less than 60 pages:
- I've created the stripping page template for saddle and stitch;
- I need to divide the book in:
a) 1x16 pages (saddle and stitch)
b) 1x12 pages (saddle and stitch)
But the 16 pages group and the 12 pages group are perfectly binded between themselves. (Sorry, english is not my native language so some technical stuff may be a little more difficult for me to explain :) ) That's why I think I need to create some section dividers or it will saddle stitch the all book... am I wrong?
Now, of course a book has more repetitions of this groups and if I have to multiply this for a 300 pages book, it's a little bit more of work and I thought there was a quicker way.
I've added an image to help.
I see your using pagination mode, don't think you need it for this job.
Is there a reason you are trying to split this up into 16's and a 12?
You could just run the entire 60pgs as a Saddle stitch with 1 template
I see in your screen shot you have not added sheets yet.
so what is your end product going to be? 15sheets stitched together?
Also in your list I see page 1 is running with pg 16 is this correct?
Shouldn't pg1 run with pg 60?
We're making Books sewn to the spine so you divide the entire book in saddle and stitched groups (multiples of 4 pages) that are then stacked.
For the 60 pages book, for example, I would need 3 groups of 16 pages, and 2 groups of 12 pages. Each group is saddle and stitched, and then stacked and sewn to the spine of the cover. So yes, if the first group has 16 pages, it should be 1...16 instead of 1...60.
On each SRA3 sheet (a little bigger than A3) we print 2 pages on the front and 2 on the back and then fold.
I didn't create the sheets, because I didn't know if starting from the signatures was the right way or not.
What I was trying to accomplish is, having on the same file, a way of quickly divide the pages in these groups. As I said previously on this post, I know how to separate manually, adding a section here or on the pagination mode.
To do this you would need to do it the way you are doing it or change the binding style to perfect bound even though it isn't. Saddle stitch will always pair the first and last page together, ie...1 an 60 while perfect bound will do exactly as you are wanting it, ie...1 and 16 etc...
Ok! Starting to make sense to me. change to perfect bind like Joe said, I think you may have to do sections
like your doing since the template is 4 pages, you will only need 1 template,
I have never done anything like this, but it should work.
I will see if I can try it later.
Tracy if they just use a 4 page template they would get 15 4 page signatures. I think they are wanting 16 page signatures where there are 4 sheets of 4 nested together. 1 and 16 on the front. 2 and 15 on the back. Then 3 and 14 and 4 and 13 etc...
for the 16 pg sig:
F: 1-16
B: 2-15
F: 3-14
B: 4-13
F: 5-12
B: 6-11
F: 7-10
B: 8-9
for the 12 page sig:
F: 17-28
B: 18-27
F: 19-26
B: 20-25
F: 21-24
B: 22-23
Yeah I get it now!
It makes it kind of hard since the template is a 4pgr, have to do it in sections like he was doing I think.
I'm trying it now.
Not sure about a 4 page template unless that is something out of XMF. In Preps we would have one 16 page template that we would put in the imposition 3 times and then one 12 page template we would add into the imposition one time.
16 * 3 = 48 + 12 = 60.
He's running it as 4pg spreads digital
It's a tough one, it can be done but I think he wants it simpler
I wouldn't use pagination mode, This is one for Diddler!
Only thing I can thing of is do 16 pg sections and then the 12
you would have to turn off the pages not being used, which I think he doesn't want
he wants it simplified.
Oh I missed he is doing digital. That throws a wrench into the gears.
I think if it was me I would make up a 16 page document and one 12 page document in InDesign and use Print Booklet '2up Saddle Stitch' to print each section individually. And skip XMF entirely...or for me skip Prinergy/Preps entirely. ;D
I had that thought too!
I have 16pg templates and 12s that I just relink pdfs to. easy peasy
Media box has to be the same tho, easy with pitstop
but he said something about 300pgr tho
Even the 300 pager would be easy with the multi page PDF importer script for InDesign.
Quote from: off_set on February 20, 2019, 10:22:28 AMHello there!
Yes, it's for digital printing in this case.
Lets simplify it and pretend it's less than 60 pages:
- I've created the stripping page template for saddle and stitch;
- I need to divide the book in:
a) 1x16 pages (saddle and stitch)
b) 1x12 pages (saddle and stitch)
But the 16 pages group and the 12 pages group are perfectly binded between themselves. (Sorry, english is not my native language so some technical stuff may be a little more difficult for me to explain :) ) That's why I think I need to create some section dividers or it will saddle stitch the all book... am I wrong?
Now, of course a book has more repetitions of this groups and if I have to multiply this for a 300 pages book, it's a little bit more of work and I thought there was a quicker way.
I've added an image to help.
I think I know what your trying to do.
I wouldn't use Pagination mode for this one, but you can if you like.
I would just do it as a normal Saddle Stitched book.
In Assembly Sections Icon, create a new "Section" and your pages will reflow into 16, 12, 8 or whatever size of section you require.
Hello there!
First of all, we, the girls from the prepress (and digital printing) department, are super grateful and impressed by your willingness to help! So, a big thank you from us here in Portugal. You're faster than our "official support"...
The suggestion to use "perfect binding" made me think and this is how I made it, at least for now :)
Since this is a regular work:
- Created new imposition patterns, with multi-web pattern, accordingly to the number of pages I would need for a signature;
- Created a new stripping page template and used the imposition pattern previously created, with "perfect binding", as you suggested;
- Added signatures based on stripping templates and now it's quicker to divide de entire book. I've specified that I wanted, for example, 3 signatures for 16 pages... and one for 12 and it's all quickly divided;
- In this example, I ignored the "sheets" panel and went straight for the "Signature Groups". On the right, I already had a workflow for digital printing and on "pdf layout", activated the "use signature group" and chosen the signature group.
Of course If we had some different specifications for some groups we would add to differenciate them.
Manually dividing into sections is very handy too, we're just preparing ourselves for bigger publications.
Good Job! would never have thought about using the pattern!
I tried the 60pg in a different way, it was pretty easy but not for a lot of pages.
Lots of good people here that will always try and help, so welcome!
on my screenshot I used acrobat and used the split tool, split pages into 16 pages each
which left the last pdf to be the 12 pages. Pulled out 4 plate icons (or pdf whatever you need)
and used the same template for each one, you don't have to have separate pdfs but I thought it
was simpler than turning off the pages that I didn't need for that sig.
looks like you got it figured out tho!
Quote from: off_set on February 21, 2019, 11:42:35 AMHello there!
First of all, we, the girls from the prepress (and digital printing) department, are super grateful and impressed by your willingness to help! So, a big thank you from us here in Portugal. You're faster than our "official support"...
Sorry for the 'he' references and welcome to the forum.
Just a heads up.
Since I created the imposition patterns with multi-web pattern, accordingly to the number of pages I would need for a signature, combining that with multiple workflows (one for the signatures with 16 pages and one for 12 pages), it's also very quick to divide the book without being in pagination mode.
Just have to be carefull and not forget to copy the sheets on the sheets panel. Since the imposition already has the number of total of pages (for example a 16 page signature) if I want 3 I should multiply it for 2 (= 3x16 pages). If color, size, etc is the same, it's even quicker than the previous method I suggested. The important thing is to create the imposition multi-web pattern.
Assigned the 16 pages to one workflow and the 12 pages to another one and voilá.
Just in case someone needs this too...