Hello! Our old Epson 9600 with Creo RIP is about dead. We are looking to purchase a 7890 and have talked to two distributors. I would like to know how others are using this printer as a press proofer. The owner has tried without success to get answers to his and my questions about this system (follows).
Right now we use XMF to create CMYK TIF files onto a hot folder on the old Creo RIP. That RIP is basically and old Best Color RIP. WE have press profiles for one press, Taffeta, Silk, Gloss and Uncoated (the uncoated uses a different proofing paper). Attached to the Best Color RIP is an old EyeOne. I realize that we could output from XMF directly, but I believe that still isn't a good option for accurate color, right?
I would like to be able to easily verify that any proofs made are correct – that the Epson is still calibrated. We have an HP5200Z that does internal calibration to paper automatically which is quite nice.
Here are my questions, concerns at this point:
1) I'm thinking we don't need the extra 2 inks since we send CMYK to it, but wonder if we could instead send RGB or LAB to it from XMF to get better spot color proofs;
2) Looks like the Epson SP Spectroproofer is the option for verification. BUT what about other options such as Color Profiler Option (we already have press profiles and don't change that much), Color Verifier Option, Production Option, Spot Color Option;
3) What would be a fairly good CPU for it? One vendor is saying Intel i5 3.4 GHz QC CPU, 8GBs RAM, 80GB SSD + 500GB HD, Win 7 Pro, with support. EFI says 4 HDs as a RAID, or 3.5 SATA, 1.5 GB
I'm quite confused about the options. If the Spectroproofer is the verifier option, why do we need the "Color Verifier Option" also? If all it does is measure strips, we're doing that now with the old eye-one, so how is it better? I recall that about 10 years ago someone had a reader that would verify a small color strip on every proof and add a "QC" label to it. That's what I really would like :)
4) One vendor says "... at least one output option is required for working system. None are included." I think all I need is hot folder functionality.
Are any of you using this printer? with a Fiery? and XMF? If so, I'd love to know how you have it setup.
Thanks and Happy New Year!
We are using EFI Fiery with an Epson 9900. We are also using SpotOn! as a way to optimize our Press Profiles running through the RIP. I take weekly measurements of a control strip to make sure we are staying within our tolerances. These measurements are saved and can be displayed to show variances over time. When it gets too out of whack then I just need todo a re-optimization. Set-up takes some time but it's smooth sailing once that's done. I used a I1 Isis to create the base linearizations and to do the optimizations. As it's a little more accurate than the I1 pro. I use the I1 pro for my weekly readings.
I know this isn't answering all your questions. But if you have any questions about my process I can definitely answer those.
Interesting. So you don't use the Spectroproofer or Color Verify options, right? Sounds doable, just more manual which is fine here.
Nope, we don't. The advantage to this is that we can use our Isis to measure press-sheets or proofs from our other Proofers. Should be more versatile. I don't have experience with the Spectroproofer or Color Verify so I can't really speak to other ways it differs.
We use an Epson 9900 Spectroproof with EFI XF. It works well... tho I am no fan of EFI. A fussy RIP, if I ever saw one.
I used to use a 7880 with EFI and just finished a temp assignment with a 9880. I like the Epson proofers, and I like EFI, although there are some limitations on color correction. Still, I find them both the be rock solid and easily maintained with a long head life.
I use Blackmagic software from Serendipity for all our colour calibration to run to Epson 9900, 9880 and 9800. The software works with XMF effortlessly and is fairly easy to use once it is set up. You just select your job and tell it to which print queue you would like it to run out of.
I have only every had to replace a print head on the 9800 once but that was after 37,000 prints and I must admit we kept it poorly maintained.
Quote from: Ear on January 05, 2015, 10:30:28 AMWe use an Epson 9900 Spectroproof with EFI XF. It works well... tho I am no fan of EFI. A fussy RIP, if I ever saw one.
Thanks for that. We had a Fiery a very long time ago, so I really couldn't judge by that.
Quote from: DigiCorn on January 05, 2015, 04:57:49 PMI used to use a 7880 with EFI and just finished a temp assignment with a 9880. I like the Epson proofers, and I like EFI, although there are some limitations on color correction. Still, I find them both the be rock solid and easily maintained with a long head life.
Our 9600 with old Creo (Best Color) RIP has been great, but it's time is over. No worries for 10 years, but now it's all problem, front to back!
Quote from: Diddler on January 05, 2015, 06:30:20 PMI use Blackmagic software from Serendipity for all our colour calibration to run to Epson 9900, 9880 and 9800. The software works with XMF effortlessly and is fairly easy to use once it is set up. You just select your job and tell it to which print queue you would like it to run out of.
I have only every had to replace a print head on the 9800 once but that was after 37,000 prints and I must admit we kept it poorly maintained.
I have heard of Blackmagic but have never researched it. I know there are several users. I'll look into it. Right now we are researching as we get a chance so it's tough to get all the info we need. The price of the EFI with the 7890, SpectroProofer and Color Verifier is pretty high. Then the boss comes in today and said there is a designer version that we might need instead. As I said at the start, we send only CMYK TIFs to it now, but not sure if there is a better/preferred way through EFI or another RIP to get good color.
All of this info is very helpful – thanks again.
From XMF, does anyone send something other than CMYK TIFs to the RIP?
1-bit, separated TIFs. Platesetters like to plot images... it must become an image at some point prior to the drum spinning up. Can't think of a better image format, so no, I doubt anyone in any rip is sending anything other that TIFs to the platesetter.
Quote from: Ear on January 06, 2015, 02:23:56 PM1-bit, separated TIFs. Platesetters like to plot images... it must become an image at some point prior to the drum spinning up. Can't think of a better image format, so no, I doubt anyone in any rip is sending anything other that TIFs to the platesetter.
Sorry, I didn't mean to the platesetter ;) I meant to the proofing RIP, be it EFI or Blackmagic, or...
we send mostly pdf files to ours, on occasion we send loose tiff images.
The Oris system we bought last year can take screened 1 bit tiffs or a straight pdf input to proof from.
Oh ya, sorry, I misunderstood... I'm sending PDFs from XMF to the EFI.
we also use CGS Oris here.
Okay - Good to know! PDFs it will likely be.
PDFs created/exported in XMF I believe are not from the rendered data. This may be old information and they may have changed how it created them, but as I see it you can create a PDF and view it before the data has been rendered. I would stick with the .TIF option of proofing from. Just my paranoid 2c worth.
You are correct, Diddler. The exported PDFs are not rendered, just preflighted and imposed. I also send to a Spinjet, for non color accurate jobs... basically a color blueline. In the case of the spinjet, it takes the screened/rendered TIFs, runs a descreen and sends a composite tiff to the spinjet. Again, these proofs are soft and desaturated, but the content is 100% accurate.
The PDF to EFI can be incorrect, since they are not the same as the rendered plate Tifs, so I am a little leery. That said, I've been using that system for a few years meow and have only had it lie to me a couple times. Both times were early on and were transparency issues with spot to process with drop shadow device-n. The proof showed it but it blew up in the RIP. I have since adopted checks upstream to catch this and have not seen it since.
Patty, like Diddler, here in OZ we use Black Magic with XMF. It's an OZ company, but am sure they have a presence in the US. They are great guys to deal with, and would certainly be worth contacting. Peter Skarpetis, the principal, was the first, I believe, to get a decent 'RIP-Integrity' proofing system that was workable. Can still remember reading about it in a trade mag here in the early 90s.
It reads, (as I understand it), the 1-bit TIFF info from XMF, then re-renders it to 720 DPI, and adds a screening simulation.. We swear by it for simplicity and robustness, as I think Diddler does.
After (too) much pain, about 2 years ago we got it profiled for a 'best (shotgun) fit' for Uncoated stocks. We are not a certified shop in any way, and it's seat-of-the-pants from PDF in to bindery. :embarrassed: Having said that, we manage OK. We change stocks, as you do, for those. We can only get 'close', with the plethora of uncoated/recycled stocks around these days.
Re PDFs... we got stung by soft-proofing with PDFs out of XMF (pre-render). We routinely Export a RIP-integrity PDF from the Black Magic file. A fiddle, but well worth effort. One proviso; you need an Acrobat Pro Optimize pre-set to hack that file size down too emailable size. I get them down by ~90% without too much degradation. Takes some experimenting with Compression settings, but once done, a breeze.
The Black Magic software is done by Serendipity, when you're 'net searching.
.... oh, use an Epson Pro 7900 here (we-re B2 size).. A few years in with it. Love it.
I will call about Blackmagic today. Another question came up today in conversation with owner – I recall that XMF will drive an Epson directly, but is not recommended because of color control. Can anyone elaborate? Does anyone do this? Thanks!
Update: Now my mission is to propose two systems – one system with only what we must have for a press proof and also to maintain / create plate profiles. For that, I'm looking to drive an Epson 7890 directly with XMF (might go rasterized for integrity), and the entire system would contain the Epson plus XRite i1Publish Pro 2, our XRite 530 Spectro, and our CCDot CCD5 plate dotmeter. XMF Tech guy assures me that they have several of the 7890 being driven directly by XMF without a problem.
The better system would add a Spectroproofer for a more automated, verified proofing system, which then would require a Fiery RIP. Would still need a reader, software for to build plate / proof profiles, so would add in XRite i1Publish Pro 2.
That's my most simple solution right now.
We are a small commercial printer but high quality. Alas, our equipment got so old we couldn't use most of it, so are now sadly out-of-date. The second system is nice but I'm mindful of overkill. Have to decide in the next couple of days. I do have a contact for Black Magic who I'll call back today. Any advice again much appreciated.
Quote from: Diddler on January 05, 2015, 06:30:20 PMI use Blackmagic software from Serendipity for all our colour calibration to run to Epson 9900, 9880 and 9800. The software works with XMF effortlessly and is fairly easy to use once it is set up. You just select your job and tell it to which print queue you would like it to run out of.
I have only every had to replace a print head on the 9800 once but that was after 37,000 prints and I must admit we kept it poorly maintained.
Which Blackmagic package do you use? Pro? Lite? 2-up? Thanks!
Quote from: frailer on January 06, 2015, 05:18:04 PMPatty, like Diddler, here in OZ we use Black Magic with XMF. It's an OZ company, but am sure they have a presence in the US. They are great guys to deal with, and would certainly be worth contacting. Peter Skarpetis, the principal, was the first, I believe, to get a decent 'RIP-Integrity' proofing system that was workable. Can still remember reading about it in a trade mag here in the early 90s.
It reads, (as I understand it), the 1-bit TIFF info from XMF, then re-renders it to 720 DPI, and adds a screening simulation.. We swear by it for simplicity and robustness, as I think Diddler does.
After (too) much pain, about 2 years ago we got it profiled for a 'best (shotgun) fit' for Uncoated stocks. We are not a certified shop in any way, and it's seat-of-the-pants from PDF in to bindery. :embarrassed: Having said that, we manage OK. We change stocks, as you do, for those. We can only get 'close', with the plethora of uncoated/recycled stocks around these days.
Re PDFs... we got stung by soft-proofing with PDFs out of XMF (pre-render). We routinely Export a RIP-integrity PDF from the Black Magic file. A fiddle, but well worth effort. One proviso; you need an Acrobat Pro Optimize pre-set to hack that file size down too emailable size. I get them down by ~90% without too much degradation. Takes some experimenting with Compression settings, but once done, a breeze.
The Black Magic software is done by Serendipity, when you're 'net searching.
.... oh, use an Epson Pro 7900 here (we-re B2 size).. A few years in with it. Love it.
Thanks - I see you're using TIFs in to the Blackmagic RIP. Which Blackmagic product do you use?
Im on Blackmagic Pro 5.2.X its not the current version but suits our needs perfectly. Cant really find a need to upgrade to the latest version.