We are looking at replacing out Epson Stylus Pro 9900 that we use for our IMPO book proofer, which we load cut sheets into to mimic the press sheets. It's getting old :old:, and lines ( which we all know means a new head at this point, too many cleanings and still not fixed ). It's been out of warranty for almost 3 years, so time for a new one.
But since workload has increased so much, it's finally time to look at the two sided options. A couple we've heard of are DJet, and IMPOProofer.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
We had a discussion about proofers here (hope I linked it right)
https://www.b4print.com/index.php?topic=9334.msg296299#msg296299
It was about XMF but it went into 2 sided proofing
We had a Canon IMPOproofer (it was basically two Canon Impographs facing each other) at my last shop. It was great, the backup can be finicky though but was usually within 1/16th of an inch. If you're busy enough to keep it going that's great, otherwise, you have to was two slots on the roll to feed a single 2 sided proof through the machine. My old shop was leaning toward flexo and only has a single 40" press now so we were wasting paper on it like crazy.
Well, I have an update. The powers that be decided to go with IMPOProofer, and it is being installed as I type now. I will update later with more info, when I have. First impression, is that it seems to take up a huge amount of floor space, from what we were told. But we will see.
I am interested in how you like it once you get it running. We're considering a printer and maybe a 2 sided printer.
The extra floorspace is accounting for the operator that needs to babysit it 24/7. ;D
Quote from: Farabomb on January 03, 2018, 09:54:24 AMThe extra floorspace is accounting for the operator that needs to babysit it 24/7. ;D
oh, you mean Otto?
last name Matic
Or his cousin, Manuel Labor.
Quote from: david on January 03, 2018, 11:22:21 AMQuote from: Farabomb on January 03, 2018, 09:54:24 AMThe extra floorspace is accounting for the operator that needs to babysit it 24/7. ;D
oh, you mean Otto?
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/theamazingworldofgumball/images/e/e4/Otto_in_Airplane%21.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170522143316)
Full install update and before full on use. We have the older base that is HUGE! But with 2 new Canon iPF8400SEs. Overall it is quite impressive. How it is setup and operates is quite interesting and clever. The software is pretty easy to get around and figure out (for the most part, but not everything). Some parts of it, seem a bit dated even for the current version. I can see paper waste being an issue if one is not careful, but time will tell for our situation and setup. I will give you more details after some usage.
Quote from: scottrsimons on January 05, 2018, 11:13:32 AMFull install update and before full on use. We have the older base that is HUGE! But with 2 new Canon iPF8400SEs. Overall it is quite impressive. How it is setup and operates is quite interesting and clever. The software is pretty easy to get around and figure out (for the most part, but not everything). Some parts of it, seem a bit dated even for the current version. I can see paper waste being an issue if one is not careful, but time will tell for our situation and setup. I will give you more details after some usage.
We have been running an impoProof for about 4 years now. Based on Canon ipf815 printers. Ours is actually going to be upgraded to the 8400se printers with a new computer and software next week, so it will be identical to yours. Ours replaced a pair of kodak 43w proofers that we ran the crap out of far passed their service life. (those things were tanks)
Ill tell you what, we used to do a a catalog that was about 74 signatures of 16 pagers. That thing took 2-3 full shifts to proof on the 43wides (one side at a time, with an operator standing by the whole time to flip the paper). On the impo proof it was done in a couple hours and the only thing we needed to do was empty the catch bin occasionally so it did not fill up, and put a new roll of paper in when it ran out. It was a HUGE difference.
What Ive learned over the years:
1. Registration will never be perfect. Don't kill yourself trying. If its within .625 fairly consistently, your doing well. (thats based on my older equipment, the new stuff may do better)
2. Reducing the amount of ink its laying down, done in the calibration tools, will improve the backup. The less soggy the paper gets, the more it lays flat and the better registration is. Mine are calibrated to be somewhat washed out. Its not a color accurate proof anyway, and I would just as soon nobody mistake it for one.
3. When it gets out of sync, and it will sometimes, its almost impossible to recover. Just cut the paper on printer one, clear the queue, rethread the thing, and start over.
Its not a perfect machine, sometimes it will agrevate the crap out of you, and sometimes you will think its dumber than a box of rocks, but its the best solution out there, and way better than flipping paper all day.
Month of use update. Overall we really like this.
Pros:
- This is WAY better than manually flipping paper.
- More consistent backups than manually flipping paper.
- Better use of employee's time. Instead of hearing someone say "your proof is up", or forgetting to flip the paper for a while. This thing just keeps on cranking them out. **This is HUGE!!**
- I've had to talk to tech support on a couple of minor things, and they are quite helpful, and willing to login to your machine and get things fixed.
- Even though it is three devices: PC, and 2 printers, it only takes on IP on the network. Not a big deal, but it is nice.
- In theory there should be cost savings in paper in the long run. Before our sheets of paper where 32"x42" and no matter the size of the IMPO we would use a sheet. Sometimes, for 14"x20" layouts we would rotate the sheet to get twice as many layouts out on one sheet. But the IMPOProofer wastes about 3" per form when printing.
- There will also be an ink savings, as we were using an Epson StylusPro 9900 with 11 tanks, and the Canon's only have 6 tanks. I know ( some might say ) the color might not be as nice as the Epson, but for book proofs, it will be fine.
Cons:
- The base takes up a lot of floor space.
- I mean a LOT of floor space.
- The catch bin is not designed for this model printer (Canon iPF 8400se) on the older base, so we fabed our own catch bin, which is working really well.
- Loading paper is a bit of a task, and getting printers lined up during the process, we have found to be a bit more challenging than one would expect. But it's just a learning curve of what to watch out for.
- If you need to get a "hot" proof out, you are going to waste some paper. About 2 - 28"x40" forms to get your one hot one out.
Hope this info, helps someone out there.
And flyingace, if you message me, I will send you a picture of what we did with our catch bin.
Just tell sales you can't do on demand proofs because of (insert some technical term here).
The second they know they can get something last minute, they'll ask for it every time and want even more.
That actually sounds pretty cool! Can you post a pic of the printer(s) setup? I'm oddly curious how massive it is all assembled.
Quote from: Farabomb on January 31, 2018, 01:19:19 PMJust tell sales you can't do on demand proofs because of (insert some technical term here).
The second they know they can get something last minute, they'll ask for it every time and want even more.
Just tell sales you can't do on demand proofs because of (lag time in the ink jet nozzles).
Just tell sales you can't do on demand proofs because of (paper friction being a fire hazard).
Just tell sales you can't do on demand proofs because of (different sized halftone dots).
Just tell sales you can't do on demand proofs because of (eddies in the time continuum).
I can tell you that those cons are mostly shared by our Djet system. It isn't particularly massive though, just 2 epson 7272's (think 9900 size) stacked, and we don't actually have a catch bin so everything just gets dumped onto the floor. Otherwise, yea, paper management. It's fun wrestling a 40" roll of paper 6 feet up to the top unit and then stringing it through to the bottom unit. Especially when the humidity is all over the place and the paper starts curling.
Still, it's way better than doing it all manually.
Since a couple have asked, here is a picture of our setup. Our floor is 2' x 2' squares. So that makes this unit 8' deep x about 6' wide x about 5' tall. The 8' deep is so you can move the lower printer away from the upper when you change out paper. Our silver catch bin, is make from an old KBA plate bent to catch the paper without crinkling the paper. Which surprisingly works pretty good.
Floor brings back memories. That place didn't use to house a Linotype-Hell Chromacom system did it? I worked on 2 different ones and both had that kind of floor. Raised to allow for wires underneath and the air conditioning system blew forced air under the floor and up through the vent holes.
Your desk/cabinets look like the furniture that came with the old Hell system also.
So that's what a real prepress room looks like? It's been so long since I've been to a real place I forgot.
wow thats pretty cool!
Good job McGyver!
Quote from: Tracy on February 02, 2018, 10:29:58 AMwow thats pretty cool!
Good job McGyver!
Thank you, that is what I do. Jack of all trades. Thinking outside the box. Always looking for a solution with what we already have, and then some. :mademyday:
Joe,
I'm not sure what kind of system they had in the department before me (or how they even survived :sarcasm: ). But it did provide a place for all the cables and A/C. It probably was something similar if not the same. As the company was primarily a film house, before adding printing to their arsenal. Luckily for me, film was gone before I came on board.
On ours I was once running cable under that floor and when lifting one of those tiles I dropped the sharp edge on my finger and it practically cut my finger off. Spent 6 hours in ER getting it sewn up.
Yes, that is Chromacom furniture, expensive stuff that last forever :D
Quote from: Marktonk on February 02, 2018, 09:34:52 PMYes, that is Chromacom furniture, expensive stuff that last forever :D
I wish I could have gotten some of it when they closed our plant down back in the day.