Okay, everyone is gonna say " shouldn't Dave already know this ??".  I'd rather not go there today.

We receive documents to print from the four corners of the earth, so we have no control over what comes in the door.  What does one do about converting a document that is all spot colors, or that contains spot colors, to CMYK.

Does one 'fix' it in the document stage, or do I let the workflow deal with it ?

I can't get the same results converting from Acrobat/PItstop as I do using XMF, and, at this point, the XMF result always looks better.

What color library is being used by XMF and also by your version of Pitstop? That is probably where the difference lies. Interesting question since I am switching to XMF. Presently we let Prinergy convert everything.

Color Library ?? How about a 'for instance' or two so I know what to look for ??

Somewhere XMF and Pitstop are using a Pantone color library to do the conversion. I have no idea in XMF but in Pitstop 12, just released yesterday, you can see the libraries here:

Ditto for us in Signa/Prinect and I have think it'll be the same if/when we switch to XMF. Isn't it always better to let the RIP handle Spot conversions? 

I wonder if XMF actually does the conversion or if it is done in preflight with Pitstop server. Someone using XMF know?

Quote from: Joe on September 09, 2013, 10:33:05 AMI wonder if XMF actually does the conversion or if it is done in preflight with Pitstop server. Someone using XMF know?

XMF is doing the conversion just before rendering.  The source file is not altered at all by a preflight.

In the admin area of XMF under Ink Management there is a default System Ink Pool. The base colours are official PANTONE library colours as part of the Adobe APPE with default CMYK references as per the pantone system. This library is selected at installation time.

There is also an option in each job to add new colours to the ink pool that arent in the original system library.  ie custom named colours like DIELINE or Spot Varnish etc. Custom colours can be editied by changing the breakdowns, neutral densities, or colour modes etc. But system pantone colours are not editable. However you can also create new ink pools.

An ink pool is basically is a group of information that includes the colour type and print mode of each ink. If multiple inks need to be managed at the job level, you can create ink pools to organise them.

In XMF you can select where to alias inks in the job settings. The only limitiation being that process inks cannot be aliased to spot colours at this stage.  You would need to do a global change in pitstop or create an actionlist in pitstop and attach it to the job in XMF.  This would edit the source file in the preflight stage.

Spot colours can be forced to process colours in the inks menu of the plate item at a job level or individual surface level.  For example if you have a job where there is a cover section and a 16pp section and the cover needs to print as spot, but you want the text to be 4col process, then you can leave the cover surface as spot and force the spots to process for the 16pp surfaces.  No need to edit the original source file.  The changes you make can also be reversed or modified at any time and then the surface re-rendered to update the changes.

hope that sheds a bit more light on the process.

 

This is typical of a job which I've chucked into the Process 'ticket', without a thought to Spots that may be present. I think I've had one slight 'issue in 2 years.
Shot2 shows Available Inks which you can access. Am not sure at what point one should cull them, as they do build up as they're added.
This is at 'Job level'. For global changes you'd do it in Admin area, as Chris says.

Quote from: biggsie7 on September 09, 2013, 03:36:38 PMSpot colours can be forced to process colours in the inks menu of the plate item at a job level or individual surface level.  For example if you have a job where there is a cover section and a 16pp section and the cover needs to print as spot, but you want the text to be 4col process, then you can leave the cover surface as spot and force the spots to process for the 16pp surfaces.  No need to edit the original source file.  The changes you make can also be reversed or modified at any time and then the surface re-rendered to update the changes.

Is it wrong that makes me slightly - aroused?  :lipsrsealed:

Quote from: Slappy on September 09, 2013, 08:43:00 PMIs it wrong that makes me slightly - aroused?  :lipsrsealed:

Whatever floats your boat Slappy.  Call it SEXMF if you want  :evil:

Quote from: Slappy on September 09, 2013, 08:43:00 PM

Quote from: biggsie7 on September 09, 2013, 03:36:38 PMSpot colours can be forced to process colours in the inks menu of the plate item at a job level or individual surface level.  For example if you have a job where there is a cover section and a 16pp section and the cover needs to print as spot, but you want the text to be 4col process, then you can leave the cover surface as spot and force the spots to process for the 16pp surfaces.  No need to edit the original source file.  The changes you make can also be reversed or modified at any time and then the surface re-rendered to update the changes.

Is it wrong that makes me slightly - aroused?  :lipsrsealed:

... and if it's the only thing that arouses you, then that could be wrong.  :cheesy:

OK, so why does a spot color, in this case Pantone 301, convert with a totally different set of CMYK dot values than the color bridge booklet shows that it should be ??

Quote from: impodave on September 10, 2013, 01:38:40 PMOK, so why does a spot color, in this case Pantone 301, convert with a totally different set of CMYK dot values than the color bridge booklet shows that it should be ??

Where are you reading the converted values?  If it's in rendered mode viewing the plate then you have to take into account any linearisation and characterisation that has been applied to the media.

Quote from: biggsie7 on September 09, 2013, 03:36:38 PM

Quote from: Joe on September 09, 2013, 10:33:05 AMI wonder if XMF actually does the conversion or if it is done in preflight with Pitstop server. Someone using XMF know?

In XMF you can select where to alias inks in the job settings. The only limitiation being that process inks cannot be aliased to spot colours at this stage.  You would need to do a global change in pitstop or create an actionlist in pitstop and attach it to the job in XMF.  This would edit the source file in the preflight stage.

My sincere apologies for some misleading info here.  I forgot that in v5 you can alias process colours to spot colours by converting the source file to PDFx in the job template.  Worth playing around with but beware of unexpected results that can occur sometimes when converting to PDFx. Note the screenshots below.