I know we did these in training & it made perfect sense, now I'm hitting a wall. Basic 8.5x11 12pg layout, on 19x25. When I start my impo, I do an 8pg, then Copy the Impo & Flow/Automatically Group in the 4pg & make it a W&T but it's changing the orig 8pg SW to a W&T also.
I tried starting it as a SW, then adding the W&T and it still changing ALL the Sigs when I do that. :banghead:
When you have a mix of SW & WT you have to use Stripping sheet templates
your stripping sheet template has to be the way you want it before, don't think
you can edit too much after the fact.
or you can use pagination mode which uses stripping sheets also.
It has a W&T mode but I don't like it as well as just using Flat Work.
Make your 8pg, flow pages... modify the intended 4 pg form to Flat Work. Then Repaginate just that form to 1,2,3,4. IF you have Saddle Stitch chosen for binding style, it will know to reassign the proper pages to create the 12 form the base 8 & 4. You'll have 1 Sheetwise and one Flat (W&T) form. I do this weekly for my sheetfed.
Here's a couple of screenshots. You can see I have the 4pg paginated as 1-4, but it knows to change it to 5-8. The other shots are showing one being sheetwise and one flatwork.
I must be dumb, can NOT get this to work that way. I managed to get a Layout with the single SW and W&T, everything runs correctly. But the W&T wasn't showing crops util I messed with the Clipping Margins & Position a little.
I'll try it your way when I get a chance, it should be a lot simpler. Thanks!
need to uncheck avoid overlap for the WT or check auto margins?
Heh, when I did that - ALL the crops & slug info ran into each other! :o
The way it handles some page content placement is confusing as hell.
Yeah, you will need to treat that flat sig as flat (marks, etc...), aside from pagination.
The earlier versions of XMF did odd things on the W&T mode, so I went with my old-school flatwork approach, like on the light table. Now I have a bunch of templates this way and don't feel like switching it over, if they have got the WT thing straightened out... and I like having control over the whole sheet. It handles W&T as one side of the sheet, with the other half being mirrored and having auto back-side numbering.
The other side of this is: it is good manual stripping practice. I embrace the big crazy ones, because it keeps me sharp on the workflow. Too many stock templates and you can get lazy... which can make you miss other details.
I do most of my WT & WR Flat too!
occasionally not.
Well there you have it. If Tracy works in Flat Mode, it's golden.
I don't like the WT - It's more work, but occasionally I'm forced to.
WnT is more work? How could it get any simpler than WnT?
In XMF it's more steps and you got to input your position
it really is a pain in the butt!! I guess cuz were spoiled :laugh:
Quote from: Joe on December 18, 2017, 03:12:58 PMWnT is more work? How could it get any simpler than WnT?
Single sided. :angel:
Basically the same for prepress. WnT is just more work for the press guys. And who cares about them? :rotf:
The bindery guy is convinced that sheetwise means we have ink almost all the way to the corners. We are using the sheet wise.
He's been printing for longer than I have and still doesn't know the differences in forms. Turn, tumble, whatever, it's all the same in his head. It's also never his fault but that's another story...
:laugh: We got a sheet wise again mang
Reminds me of a genius years ago, was doing film compositing using a turnis board (not sure how to spell that, but imagine manual step and repeat with pins on both ends) and he was rotating the film 180 between each exposure. When I questioned it he let me know the layout was...
ready for this?
...
WORK AND SWIRL
:rotf:
Quote from: born2print on December 19, 2017, 12:30:21 PMReminds me of a genius years ago, was doing film compositing using a turnis board (not sure how to spell that, but imagine manual step and repeat with pins on both ends) and he was rotating the film 180 between each exposure. When I questioned it he let me know the layout was...
ready for this?
...
WORK AND SWIRL
:rotf:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
work & swirl
I did that once...
hurt like hell
:rotf:
One of our pressmen actually jokes about work and swirl layouts. Mainly to the bindery guy to keep him confused but that's really not a hard task.
Ternes Board, I know it well, I remember stochastic being a huge problem on those.
remember the film cleaner? I use to use so much of it the Vendor use to say to me
Can a week, that's all we ask :laugh:
In case anyone misses it
HA! Yes Tracy, thank you, and I was about to post an image of it and it's the same one you posted already 8) 8)
I'm sure this topic has been solved, and we've all gone on to discuss other things (like why my kids are only getting toys this year with fewer than 5 pieces and don't make noise), but in a pinch, if it's not cooperating, create independent pages and hand number them to create a phony work and turn form in with a sheetwise template.
Quote from: born2print on December 19, 2017, 12:30:21 PMWORK AND SWIRL
:rotf:
I think that's the other kind of stripping :naughty:
Quote from: Tracy on December 18, 2017, 03:15:20 PMIn XMF it's more steps and you got to input your position
it really is a pain in the butt!! I guess cuz were spoiled :laugh:
Except when the Pressroom Mgr comes back with the job, like
just happened, and needs the Cover W&T for some reason, then the Move Sheet to End is like freakin' unicorn magic to them!!
:lmao:
Have you done Pagination Mode yet?
Maybe? Have I? I'm not sure, do I start an impo differently to get into Pagination mode? I saw your earlier thread on it, but I wasn't using XMF at the time, I'll go back & see if it's familiar now.
Diddler gave me some instructions with Screen shots I will find them and get them to you
I'm a little sick today but I will get it to you by next week for sure!
I'm so grateful for Diddler showing me this, you can use it for everything (which I don't)
but where it is the most useful is when you have different sheet sizes.
I'm pretty comfortable with it now. It's all about the Stripping sheet templates
being perfect before you start. I have a sets of Stripping sheet templates that just work
beautifully
sheesh I'm a little delirious (sick) :laugh:
I vaguely remember our training person showing me Stripping Sheet templates, it's a little fuzzy though. FO rmixed sheets I've been doing a 2nd Workflow which isn't bad, got the plating guys pretty trained on it at least.
No hurry, hope ya feel better soon!
Thanks Slappy!
Yeah I wasn't trained on the Stripping sheet templates too much either, and not at all with pagination mode.
but those certain jobs, knowing pagination mode is the way to go.
Here are Diddlers instructions, It's for a 16 and 12 on different sheet sizes, that's why there are 2 plate icons.
Practice this till you get it and you can do any layout.
It's all about the stripping sheet templates being correct, let me know if you need help with the creep or your templates.
The one Called Diddlers is just an enlargement of his screenshots that I printed out to see better.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ol3f9u4iwkjwf8g/XMF%20pagination%20guide.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k8tsamhxy644n4b/Diddlers.pdf?dl=0
This looks like it was solved but I wanted to add my two cents. We use job templates with hot folders which makes a 12pg imposition as simple as dragging and dropping a pdf into a hot folder. This same imposition template works perfectly with any number of pages requiring a work and turn (12. 20, 28, etc). The imposition template is set up with sheet one being the 4pg WT and sheet 2 set as the 8pg SW. If there are more than 12 pages, additional 8pg signatures are automatically added as needed. The only reason I have to actually open the job is if I need to move the WT to the center of the book. (move sheet to end)
Jerry,
That's what I'm working towards also, at least having the Templates working properly. We don't do a ton of these layouts yet to warrant Hot Folders but that's an easy enough step once I'm confident of the basic impo being right.
Quote from: Tracy on December 29, 2017, 09:27:21 AMHere are Diddlers instructions, It's for a 16 and 12 on different sheet sizes, that's why there are 2 plate icons.
Practice this till you get it and you can do any layout.
It's all about the stripping sheet templates being correct, let me know if you need help with the creep or your templates.
The one Called Diddlers is just an enlargement of his screenshots that I printed out to see better.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ol3f9u4iwkjwf8g/XMF%20pagination%20guide.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k8tsamhxy644n4b/Diddlers.pdf?dl=0
Ooooooh, a tutorial!! They're my favortist - thanks guys!
So I'm trying this again, for a 164-pg Cut & Stack going to an outside Bindery. When I get to the 3rd step "Add sheet" none of my Stripping Sheet Templates I made (using the bindery peoples' instructions) show up. I set them up in an "regular" Impo then did a Save As Stripping Template.
Do I have to go into the Admin->Templates->Stripping Sheet Templates and make them all manually instead?
So your doing this in pagination mode?
go look in your stripping sheet templates from admin and see if it really is in stripping sheets
looks like you may be saving it as an imposition template.
what are your specs for the cut stack I may have an easier way for you.
sheet size, front and backs?
when you save a stripping sheet template you have to do it from here (screen shot)
Hmmmm, I need to revisit this-I'm saving it from a different area. I as in the "Signature" tab instead of "Sheets."
Quote from: Tracy on April 05, 2018, 09:31:40 AMwhat are your specs for the cut stack I may have an easier way for you.
sheet size, front and backs?
Thanks, but I planned this all wrong anyway, it really gets set up like a Perfect Bind, folded sheets that trim 4 sides since they're ending up as squarish spiral bound books.
yeah it's kind of weird, Stripping sheets must be saved in the sheets section.
if you save it anywhere else it will be an imposition template.
also when you add a stripping sheet (not in pagination mode) you have to add from there too.
your in the same place i was, they don't tell you this stuff in the training.
you know you can select cut and stack right?
Yeah, which is how I started but - and even when I used the correct impo numbers, it got really weird at the end of the set & started adding MORE than the required pages. Caveat: There's a single 16pg sig and THEN a 4pg W&T form too. I'm amazed it's all working honestly, and I ran lasers of the full impo & folded everything down to be sure.
Do you have it set up as a Perfect Bind in XMF or Cut and Stack? I'm not too familiar with Pagination Mode but we do perfect binds quite frequently in my shop.