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Applying Creep

Started by tinker25, May 06, 2010, 05:49:07 AM

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tinker25

May 06, 2010, 05:49:07 AM
Hi all.
Don't want to cut into Monique's thread with my newbie Q's...
Can someone explain the basics of creep (as it works in XMF esp)?
I've got a 32 pg-er of 105gsm.
Been trying to figure out how you use impo default creep and then sheet creep but the explanations so far just confused me more! Why the neg value in first place?
 :banghead: My direct p-2-p contact at XMF doesn't seem to know the answer so no help there :P
any eager teachers out there?
Thanks

Farabomb

#1
May 06, 2010, 09:05:27 AM
Welcome to the asylum tinker.

Our resident XMF dude is probably sleeping down under right now but I'm sure he'll chime in when he sees this.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear on April 06, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on April 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AMIt's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin
My other job

ddog

#2
May 06, 2010, 09:06:08 AM
I don't know about XMF but I could tell you how I apply creep in Preps..
Tom McCain
OS X 10.8
Preps 6.3
Prinergy Connect 5.2
Matchprint Inkjet
Epson 9800
Trendsetter 800 II Quantum

born2print

#3
May 06, 2010, 09:45:36 AM Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 03:13:00 PM by born2print
gsm refers to weight, you need to know the text stock caliper (thickness) usually measured in thousandths of inch (like .004")
Paper books list caliper, but it can also be measured with a micrometer
Then the formula I use is text page count x caliper / 2 (then maybe round DOWN a little)

Be aware that creep will mess-up crossovers.

HTH
All around me are familiar faces
Worn-out places, worn-out faces
Bright and early for their daily races
Going nowhere, going nowhere

DigitalCrapShoveler

#4
May 06, 2010, 09:58:29 AM
Ditto.
Member #285 - Civilian

Farabomb

#5
May 06, 2010, 12:55:17 PM
Ok, now I'm confused. I read here that the formula was page count divided by 4 multiplied by thickness. I used to use pg / 2 x thick. You guys are confusing me.  :huh:
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear on April 06, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on April 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AMIt's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin
My other job

DigiCorn

#6
May 06, 2010, 01:00:56 PM
It only makes sense that it is the # of pages, divided by 2 multiplied by the paper caliper. The Preps book says # of pages divided by 4 times the paper caliper times 2, but it works out to be the same.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

DigitalCrapShoveler

#7
May 06, 2010, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: Farabomb on May 06, 2010, 12:55:17 PMOk, now I'm confused. I read here that the formula was page count divided by 4 multiplied by thickness. I used to use pg / 2 x thick. You guys are confusing me.  :huh:

How? I've been doing it that way for 20 years.

Also, I was not involved in that thread.
Member #285 - Civilian

Joe

#8
May 06, 2010, 01:08:19 PM
A book with 200 pages / 2 will give you half of the pages but you have to remember pages print on both sides of the sheet. 200 / 4 gives you the number of sheets for half of the book. 50.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

DigiCorn

#9
May 06, 2010, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: Joe on May 06, 2010, 01:08:19 PMA book with 200 pages / 2 will give you half of the pages but you have to remember pages print on both sides of the sheet. 200 / 4 gives you the number of sheets for half of the book. 50.
so you only apply creep to half a book?
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

born2print

#10
May 06, 2010, 01:21:46 PM Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 01:22:43 PM by born2print
Yes... then the other half.

Let's say you have a 64 pager at .004" per sheet:
64 x .004 / 2 = .128

Your pages in the center will move .128 and the next pages will move less by a fraction all the way out to the covers... (which will move zero) the same amount for the front half and back half simultaniously. Better?
All around me are familiar faces
Worn-out places, worn-out faces
Bright and early for their daily races
Going nowhere, going nowhere

born2print

#11
May 06, 2010, 01:26:53 PM
Another way to picture it is the center spread moving inward at .128"
then each spread working outward will move .004" less

.128
.124
.120
>
>
.008
.004
0
All around me are familiar faces
Worn-out places, worn-out faces
Bright and early for their daily races
Going nowhere, going nowhere

DigiCorn

#12
May 06, 2010, 01:29:05 PM
Yeah - that's what I said... but then Joe comes in with half of that formula
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

born2print

#13
May 06, 2010, 01:33:25 PM
You'll see Joe's formula published way more often than mine, but in my experience, the published formula yields too little creep so I changed our policy many years ago to this. You should keep both in mind and see what works for your environment.
All around me are familiar faces
Worn-out places, worn-out faces
Bright and early for their daily races
Going nowhere, going nowhere

DigitalCrapShoveler

#14
May 06, 2010, 01:37:23 PM
That is EXACTLY what I did. The published formula was not yielding the results I required until applying it to the whole book, then splitting that and utilizing the Inner and Outer fields. Works best on sheet fed, 72 page or more. Web might be different.
Member #285 - Civilian
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