In Action lists/ Device links / TAC Reduction:
I tried this out to reduce Ink and it seems to work really good
I haven't tested it out for weird color changes, but It's looking
like a better way to reduce ink coverage than the way I've been doing it with photoshop.
That's the plan....
Which Action List did you use?
Also remember it only works with DeviceCMYK
I used the Gracol 280
I did see that it only works with Device CMYK
I will have to be mindful of that when I start using it.
I'm happy to see this!!!!
Yeah, one has to dupe the default action lists and add steps to remove CMYK ICC from strokes, fills and other objects – or run an action list to do the same before running the default action list.
Indeed, you can add a Select all > remove icc tags if you wish.
Another thing to remember is that if you use an Output Intent you should consider if that needs to be updated as well.
We did consider adding that to the Action List, but we know a lot of people don't use output intents, and we figured the ones that do would know enough that they could do it themselves.
I'm curious how it actually works
I don't know anything about device links
Quote from: Tracy on July 07, 2017, 08:03:03 AMI'm curious how it actually works
I don't know anything about device links
Hi Tracy, I'll "try" to keep this simple with a CMYK output profile and attempt to skip over heaps of other stuff...
Standard Device profiles can have different colour tables (Perceptual, Relative Colorimetric, Absolute Colorimetric, Saturation). Then there is a "Profile Connection Space" or PCS which is a device independent (Lab or XYZ colour space) "translator". When you convert from say CMYK to CMYK a rendering intent, BPC and other options may be chosen. The source CMYK value is translated to the device independent PCS value, then the PCS to destination device CMYK value is used to remap the source. This is just a translation, the actual file is not actually converted to Lab colour space. So:
CMYK (source)
> PCS > CMYK (destination)
DeviceLink profiles are simpler. There is no PCS. So there is no translation through an intermediate "abstract" colour space. There is no selection of rendering intent. All of the conversion options are "pre-baked" into the link profile. So:
CMYK (source)
> CMYK (destination)
This allows a simple remapping of say 100% K (source) to 100% K (destination).
Going through a PCS "middleman" the conversion to destination would result in a rich black using CMYK values. The density of the converted black would be the same as the source, however it would not be K only. With a DeviceLink profile, 100K is used in a simple colour lookup table and 100K is the destination (if so desired).
It is common for DeviceLink profiles to maintain single primary solid values (i.e. 100% cyan etc.), secondary solid values (i.e. 100% cyan + 100% magenta etc.). Depending on the link generation software, other variables may be offered as well – such as the ability to zero out the white point values to remove paper white simulation with an absolute colorimetric intent transform. Sometimes vectors may be handled differently to rasters (however I don't like this option and prefer both to use the same).
DeviceLink profiles from commercial profiling packages are usually costly to purchase and have license restrictions around them (they are considered licensed software), so the Enfocus DeviceLinks are encrypted and can only be used in PitStop.
The key things to remember is that the chosen DeviceLink must represent BOTH the source and the destination. So if you are using an ISO Coated v2 link that drops the weight from 320% to 300%, then make sure that the source file is actually ISO Coated v2 as this will be the assumed source. Unlike standard device profiles, the source and destination are presumed and pre-built into the link, they are not referenced by the source ICC profile – which is why the source can't be ICC tagged and should be Device CMYK. Additionally, the result is "untagged" or Device CMYK, one can't tag/embed a link, so the destination ICC or Output Intent would need to be manually set.
Quote from: abc on July 07, 2017, 07:01:34 AMIndeed, you can add a Select all > remove icc tags if you wish.
Hi ABC, however I would beware of globally stripping out ALL profiles, as the RGB profiles are very useful and it is only the CMYK profiles that need to be removed if running a CMYK > CMYK devicelink (unless I am wrong, the devicelink conversion would not work on an object with an object level ICC profile).
Very true, you can of course be very selective when removing tags based on the selections you use in the Action List.
Also just to mention that the Reduce devicelinks have the same source and destination profile.
Thanks for the info!!
Now I have lots of questions :laugh:
Why is removing RGB profiles bad
and what is object level ICC?
I think I need to get this.
Thanks!
HI Tracy
Well if an object (normally images) have an icc profile attached, then you know how it was created ie which profile was used to capture it etc. So when you convert it to CMYK for example that profile is used as the source.
If you don't have a profile attached then you have to guess. Depending on the customer the differences between sRGB and Adobe RGB for example can make a difference.
Object level icc is the same thing, the object is tagged with an ICC profile.
Thanks ABC that's making some sense.
You are in the perfect job, your a great teacher!
Quote from: Tracy on July 10, 2017, 12:06:56 PMThanks for the info!!
Now I have lots of questions :laugh:
Why is removing RGB profiles bad
and what is object level ICC?
I think I need to get this.
Thanks!
In order to get where you want to go you first need to know where it is you are starting from. The source RGB profile tells you exactly where you are coming from, your destination profile tells you where you want to end up. The color management engine (Google Maps) tell you the directions. A device link profile is essentially an optimized path without needing to ask the mapping engine (CMS) how to get there.
Or, if you're into Stargate you need the dialing computer (DHD/color management engine), the six coordinates for the destination planet/gate and the 7th point ( source location/source profile ). Can't dial without the point of origin.
Geeky enough?
Quote from: Tracy on July 10, 2017, 12:06:56 PMWhy is removing RGB profiles bad
RGB and CMYK colour modes are just values/numbers. They are "device dependent" – it depends on which physical device and on which ICC profile is coupled with the values/numbers on the actual perceived colour that is produced:
http://prepression.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/rgb-icc-profile-roulette.html
Quote from: Tracy on July 10, 2017, 12:06:56 PMand what is object level ICC?
In a PDF file, objects can have an ICC profile associated with them (vectors, text, rasters) – and in the case of PDF standards, the entire document can also have an "output intent" ICC profile set.
DeviceLink profile conversions in PitStop can't be performed on objects that contain an ICC profile, they only work on "device" colours (PDF talk for untagged, no object level ICC profile).
So if one must remove ICC tags to run a DeviceLink Profile, and for example the profile is CMYK > CMYK, there is no benefit for also removing RGB ICC profiles.
I have used the TAC for some jobs.
In todays webinar, he talked about working with images
and how the file size gets bigger when you do, I do experience this.
I will watch the video again, but hoping you could elaborate on this ABC.
Pitstop 2017 has some great added features, looks like with the maintenance license
we will be able to learn some advanced stuff on the website soon.
Ok so here's the explanation.
You know when you save an image or create a PDF you have compression options. Maximum, High, Medium etc.
These obviously compress the images during the creation of the PDF.
So when you edit/convert/manipulate an image in PitStop, the image has to be opened (uncompressed), the change made, and then the image is saved again (and re-compressed during this process).
The default compression that PitStop uses for this (which you don't see, it just happens) is High.
So, if you have PDF where the original files are compressed with 'Medium' and the edited resaved images are then 'High" the file size will grow.
You can adjust this with Action Lists or changing compression in the Inspector, but I thought it worth mentioning.
Anyone that uses medium settings should be tarred and feathered.
all too common though!
Indeed.
Thanks ABC!
Wanting to learn everything about this TAC.
I usually compress images to Zip before adjusting images
in photoshop, (they are usually .jpg compressed)
so I don't need to compress images before using the TAC action?
Don't confuse the two things. TAC is Total Area Coverage, also sometimes called TIC Total Ink Coverage amongst other things.
That's the check for the amount of ink going down onto the substrate.
The Devicelink helps you control that so you don't get marking/setoff or drying issues.
The part about compression applies to any edits or conversions you do on images in a PDF file.
If you get a file from the customer take a look a the compression before using the PitStop Inspector, edit an image in someway and then look at the result afterwards.
You raised a good question though, I'm not sure if we keep the original compression when edits are made, in your case zip which doesn't have a whole lot of options.
Zip doesn't need a lot of options. It is lossless compression and should be the default. Adobe disagrees with me on that.
JPEG high is reasonable for most applications, for graphic arts not so much. But PDF is so much bigger than printing. Easier/faster/smaller transmission and storage of data where JPEG artifacts are either not noticed or immaterial. In my days we changed all non-zip compressed objects to zip compressed. When we sent out documents we zip compressed everything. But that was our choice. The efficiency that JPEG high offers vs. 8-bit zip can be substantial.
But we're printers, we don't care about how other people use PDF. :cane: It does stand for Prepress Document Format, right? I rest my case.
I think PDF X4, which is for printing, should be zip. I know I will probably lose that argument to Adobe but I don't care. Disk space is cheap.
Quote from: Ear on August 03, 2017, 11:30:25 AMBut we're printers, we don't care about how other people use PDF. :cane: It does stand for Prepress Document Format, right? I rest my case.
Ummmm....right. :rotf:
PDF X4 is still below standard, for 2017 model workflows... I too will lose the argument, but in 5 years, when everyone else upgrades, they will have the same growing pains.
Quote from: Joe on August 03, 2017, 11:41:26 AMQuote from: Ear on August 03, 2017, 11:30:25 AMBut we're printers, we don't care about how other people use PDF. :cane: It does stand for Prepress Document Format, right? I rest my case.
Ummmm....right. :rotf:
:hello: seriously, warchild. WTF does the rest of the world need PDF for, FFS? It just confuses them as to what a PDF really is. They all claim a shitty jpeg "looks good on their screen"... I say, give them jpegs and let us printers keep the PDF.
Quote from: Ear on August 03, 2017, 11:45:56 AMQuote from: Joe on August 03, 2017, 11:41:26 AMQuote from: Ear on August 03, 2017, 11:30:25 AMBut we're printers, we don't care about how other people use PDF. :cane: It does stand for Prepress Document Format, right? I rest my case.
Ummmm....right. :rotf:
:hello: seriously, warchild. WTF does the rest of the world need PDF for, FFS? It just confuses them as to what a PDF really is. They all claim a shitty jpeg "looks good on their screen"... I say, give them jpegs and let us printers keep the PDF.
You got my vote buddy! :fistbump: :yourock:
Quote from: Ear on August 03, 2017, 11:43:54 AMPDF X4 is still below standard, for 2017 model workflows... I too will lose the argument, but in 5 years, when everyone else upgrades, they will have the same growing pains.
They are working on the next version: PDF 2.0 (https://www.pdfa.org/what-will-pdf-2-0-bring/)
PDF 2.0 is done and published. Now it's PDF/X-6 which is based on 2.0
Quote from: abc on August 03, 2017, 12:43:25 PMPDF 2.0 is done and published. Now it's PDF/X-6 which is based on 2.0
Is there a place to get the PDF/X-6 job options anywhere?
Hmmmm...I guess I found my answer. Posted last January.
Quote from: Originally posted by Dov IsaacsThe PDF/X-6 standard is still in active development and will likely be published no earlier than late 2018.
- Dov
The specs not finished yet, it's still being worked on.
Tell Dov to step on it... these pre-PDF 1.7 files are really giving me grief in the RIP.
Any idea why?
What's the issue...
I have a number of ideas why.... PDF/X 4 uses PDF 1.6, I believe. I get some PDF/X 4 from Quark Clients and they work fairly well.
Adobe CC uses some pretty sweet new features and it feels like the older PDF versions have trouble. I handle dozens of large PDFs per day, and I see a lot of odd things. I can say this for sure, if I get PDF 1.4 or PDF/X 1a, and the client doesn't want to fix the export, I will flatten to postscript, or it will almost certainly have transparency and rendering problems. And, PDF 1.7 is the only PDF version to allow me to convert spot to process in the RIP, with transparency involved and not knock a hole in something.
Without fail, when I have a problem PDF exported as PDF 1.7, it flies through my Xitron Sierra RIP.
PDF 1.7 is pretty old its self. I'm thinking previous PDF versions couldn't have had support for things that didn't exist yet, like Open Type fonts and some of the crazy transparency features. I can try to keep better track of specific issues. I have yet to have a PDF 1.7 go sideways on me. All other versions do different naughty things that cause hate and discontent.
I guess I don't see the logic in making a new version of something, but continuing to use a legacy format... if we are using a 2001 or 2008 PDF version, why upgrade anything? I'm just sick of straightening out Adobe's poor presets all day, every day. Hurry up with PDF 2.0 and get it right, then make a damn "Printers Love It" preset, so people actually use it. Then I can retire.
... the scary reality is, if Adobe ever does listen and get their presets and APPE workflows to jive, and ditch the legacy settings, so people are forced to not do it wrong.... I will be forced to retire. People screwing up PDFs all day and Adobe not having proper export presets keeps me busy, and keeps me necessary. hmmm, guess I should shut up. :shocked:
Dude... you're gonna get us busted. Shut up!
Customers will always find a way to do it wrong. Doesn't matter what Adobe does with APPE, the version of PDF whether it is PDF 1.7, PDF 2.0, 8.0 or 216.0 or presets for X4, X6, X22 or X999. DOOMED!
I got a PDF/X 1a the other day... PDF 1.3... the Workflow wouldn't even recognize it as a valid PDF to load it. I had to re-fry it up above 1.4... so it appears you are correct. It was out of InDesign CC too. :-\ ... if Adobe removed that capability, it would be a start.
You know how designers think...if it worked 20 years ago it will be even better now!
:facepalm:
My Pitstop Action to reduce ink density is not working
trying to use the Gracol 280
anyone else?
On an image or on a page?
First thing to check is that it is DeviceCMYK!
Oh yeah :grin:
that was it!
I'm really liking the Reduce Ink Coverage
Right now I'm just using user selection and going through
the document, If you do the whole document it changes the vectors also (which does change the colors)
I'm going to try my hand at creating an action for just images.
It doesn't make the file size larger and I'm not seeing any change in color.
We do some nice stuff but we are not high end.
and for those jobs where it just doesn't matter (you know the jobs) :laugh:
I think an Action for all the images are going to work nice.
HI Tracy, this would make a nice little user story for our website/social media
Could I get our marketing team to contact you for a quote etc.?
Quote from: abc on October 14, 2017, 04:17:35 AMHI Tracy, this would make a nice little user story for our website/social media
Could I get our marketing team to contact you for a quote etc.?
By 'quote' Tracy, he means he's running the size of your cheque in the mail, past you... :evil: Nah, just kidding...
At our place, where we're about to go to 2017, my new part-time compadre, who's been doing this stuff since the advent of
Sun Sparcs, got very excited after watching the video on the 'deleting invisible content', (or whatever it's called).
If you can get someone with that experience excited, you must be doing something right, ABC. ;D
Quote from: abc on October 14, 2017, 04:17:35 AMHI Tracy, this would make a nice little user story for our website/social media
Could I get our marketing team to contact you for a quote etc.?
Sure! I'll Pm you my Email Address, you may already have it tho.
Anybody watch the webinar yesterday?
the instructor was talking about bleed and in one of the actions he had-mask bleed to bleed box,
does anyone have this action? I don't see it in any of the selections to create the action either.
I have a recurring job I could use this on.
There was a webinar yesterday?
What exactly did the action do?
I do see an action named "Inside or Overlapping Bleed Box" that looks like this. Could this be it?
Yes there was a webinar, Most of it was about modifying adding bleed
if you didn't get notification your automatic sign ups may have run out.
happened to me once.
I will check that Joe,, could be the one and he called the action mask bleed box.
what it does it removes bleed where you have too much bleed.
I may have to re watch just for that
Yeah I think remove outside of the bleed box removes any objects completely outside the bleed box.
what I want to do is clip to the bleed box, not urgent don't have anything to do right now :laugh:
I will fumble around with it and re watch video.
Tracy, you can change that value to any of these:
aha! overlapping region!
Thanks! I will try it tomorrow!
Is there a way to make a clipping mask in Pitstop?
Just playing around non urgent
yes
Quote from: Tracy on February 23, 2018, 12:10:31 PMIs there a way to make a clipping mask in Pitstop?
Just playing around non urgent
Look under Pitstop Edit.
Looked :laugh:
Joe's gonna make me work for it!
Well I did give you a screen shot of it. :tongue:
Quote from: Joe on February 23, 2018, 01:24:06 PMWell I did give you a screen shot of it. :tongue:
Do not see it, nope do not, looked 2x, maybe have to look 3x?
I see it.
Quote from: pspdfppdfxhd on February 23, 2018, 01:33:55 PMQuote from: Joe on February 23, 2018, 01:24:06 PMWell I did give you a screen shot of it. :tongue:
Do not see it, nope do not, looked 2x, maybe have to look 3x?
Probably because of those glasses! :tongue:
Quote from: Tracy on February 23, 2018, 12:10:31 PMIs there a way to make a clipping mask in Pitstop?
Just playing around non urgent
I think if you add a shape from Pitstop Edit, then select both the new shape and what you want in the clipping mask there should be an option to make a clipping path from a right click with the pitstop select object tool.
I'll give it a shot! :)
I can't find the previous webinars on the Enfocus website can anyone assist me?
Thanks!
Are you in their linked-in group? They should have them posted there.
Here are the May 2017 through November 2017 links. Not sure where the more recent ones are at.
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/6801080/6801080-6006090175053119488
Yeah, missed this week, did you attend?
Quote from: Tracy on March 09, 2018, 11:34:04 AMYeah, missed this week, did you attend?
There was one this week? That is two in a row I've missed. Seems I don't get notifications anymore.
I have to upload Jan, Feb and March.
Will also push the invites out again..
Apologies but been really busy with the PitStop 2018 release (which is looking really cool btw!)
Quote from: Joe on March 09, 2018, 11:43:42 AMQuote from: Tracy on March 09, 2018, 11:34:04 AMYeah, missed this week, did you attend?
There was one this week? That is two in a row I've missed. Seems I don't get notifications anymore.
You prolly have to go back in and register for the whole year again, it happened to me once
Just noticed ABC is going to email you the invite
Quote from: Tracy on March 09, 2018, 04:27:34 PMQuote from: Joe on March 09, 2018, 11:43:42 AMQuote from: Tracy on March 09, 2018, 11:34:04 AMYeah, missed this week, did you attend?
There was one this week? That is two in a row I've missed. Seems I don't get notifications anymore.
You prolly have to go back in and register for the whole year again, it happened to me once
Go where and register again?
I think you can on the Enfocus website, but I think ABC is going to send out the invites in an email
and you can register for the year.
https://www.enfocus.com/en/events/monthly-pitstop-pro-workshops
if you click on the link it will take you to a link to the webinars, Just click on April thru December 2018
Thanks Tracy.
The March Webinar is really good, showing some upcoming stuff in 2018
Action list visualizer- very cool, you can view what your action list is doing step by step
Pantone to CMYK-converts all your different named spots (of same color) to LAB or CMYK Spot correctly
Digital Preflight Report
BarCodes
and some other stuff too!
sshhh!!
:-)
Here's the Pantone story.
https://youtu.be/QI5Wb5NqLpo
Here's another new feature for you. Just uploaded.
https://youtu.be/salsmLRO33Q
awesome! these are going to be very useful
There really are some great things coming in the next release. Testing has been fun.
I thought you were doing the beta, good job keeping it from us! :tongue: :laugh:
Well there is the NDA and all. ;D
No problem, I know where you are when I have questions :laugh:
You can always join the beta as well Tracy...
?
I will consider it next time!
Thanks!
I'll put you down on the list for the next one...
I think ABC may be the only one that can answer this question.
When I use the reduce Ink Action, I have been compressing jpg compress to Zip compress 1st
altho I do not see any quality reduction when using the action on the jpg compressed images
Is it safe to use the Reduce Ink Action on jpg compressed images?
also I notice a color change when changing non device cmyk to device cmyk
usually on bad files, which is fine, worst case I can adjust in photoshop, but would like to know why this happens and
the proper way to change to device cmyk
The images are decompressed to be converted, then recompressed back to JPEG. You could change the JPEG quality level, but that will toss bits again. I make the conversion to ZIP/Flate compression one of the first tasks as part of the preflight process. So it's not a problem to use the device links to reduce the ink in JPEG's.
Changing from RGB or spot colors to CMYK is always a bit of a sticky topic. You first must know where your color is originating. Having objects tagged with ICC profiles helps the CMS to know what color space to map from correctly into the destination space. If the objects are not tagged then PitStop has to assume a color space. That happens in the color management settings in the PitStop preferences. The profiles there are only used when an object is not tagged. Then in PitStop you also have to set the destination space.
If your PDF originated from Word or the images from a digital camera, then it's pretty safe to assume in PitStop's preferences that sRGB is the source RGB space. If you have a Nikon digital camera there is a specific Nikon RGB profile for some models. Adobe RGB might sound like the best source space to use, but it likely is not.
Once you know what source space you have, what destination space you want to go to, you then must pick the rendering intent. For lack of a better term, the source color space (tagged or assumed) is your home address, the CMYK space is your destination, and the CMS engine and the rendering intent provide the directions. Most of the time relative will work well for RGB to CMYK. But there are reasons to use perceptual for line art and/or images.
Set your Acrobat Pro color management to the right settings, then match them in PitStop (or vice versa) and know what profiles to use when and it will be far easier. I set my Acrobat Pro preferences to sRGB and FOGRA39/Gracol 2006. I set my PitStop preferences to
Source Grey: Dotgain 20%
Source RGB: sRGB
Source CMYK: FOGRA39/Gracol 2006
Destination grey: Fogra39/Gracol grey (extracted black channel from the FOGRA39/Gracol profile)
Desitination RGB: ECI RGB
Destination CMYK: Fogra39/Gracol 2006
Rendering intent for images: Perceptual
Rendering intent for other objects: Relative
Generally works out quite well for me. I also have specific device links with ink limiting and GCR build for sRGB to Gracol/FOGRA39 and a number of other scenarios where I can go direct to CMYK in one process rather than RGB-->CMYK--> Ink reduction with device link. I can use a device link to go RGB-->"optimized" CMYK. You can do if you have such profiles and properly configure your color management.
Don't forget that you can in action lists or preflight profiles override color management settings so that you can create actions/profiles/processes (even using design layout) to process particular PDF's in particular ways without having to change your Acrobat and PitStop global preferences.
Similar things can be done with PitStop Server, Connect You, Connect all, Switch, etc. if you think through the process first.
Thanks Matt!
I actually kind of understand what you said! :)