At the risk of being a real PITA, I need to ask another one....At times we do things like scratch off foils here (that need to overprint). The other day, quite by accident, I realized that when you rip a file with an overprint like this, the information below the overprint will NOT trap. (The reason I know this is because I ripped it by accident without the foil once and it trapped fine). Anybody know anyway to get around this and have the file trap below the overprint?
I'll do some testing when I have time today, but I would rip the foil separate from the work so it doesn't interfere with the trap. I'll let you know my findings later.
RIP the foil with the trap type set to Varnish and send it back into trap edit if the type below has not trapped. To click through layers hold the Apple & Control buttons down.
Quote from: Stiv on March 09, 2009, 08:55:55 AMRIP the foil with the trap type set to Varnish and send it back into trap edit if the type below has not trapped. To click through layers hold the Apple & Control buttons down.
OMG! I think I love you! I have been looking for how to get thru layers FOREVER! The file I was just talking about I had to use the "find" box and keep guessing at the object number to trap it! THANK YOU!!
Something ain't right. An overprint should not factor in to the traps underneath. How are you setting them up EXACTLY and in what app?
In rampage? I like to think that logic has no place here....Yes, the files were set up correctly, however, I think what Stiv said has some bearing....if it's ripped as a varnish and not ripped to overprint, everything should be fine :undecided:
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on March 09, 2009, 09:10:36 AMSomething ain't right. An overprint should not factor in to the traps underneath. How are you setting them up EXACTLY and in what app?
Sorry, I misread....you wanted to know how the files were set up....the foil was on a layer above the rest of the file (spot color) and the color was set to OP in the rip....
In Indesign CS4....
So you are NOT setting the OPs in InDesign?
Did you try not setting the OP in Indy and only in Rampage? I never had this happen to me, however I never trap in Indy.
The only trapping I do, is overprints, unless it is something specifiv the RIP won't do, or can't. I ALWAYS set OPS in the app. That way it will trap correctly. I don't use RAMPAGE, so carry on.... Out of my expertise, or whatever.
The OP was NOT from InD, just set in the rip in rampage....
Quote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 10:26:39 AMThe OP was NOT from InD, just set in the rip in rampage....
So did Stiv's way work for you?
I was assuming that you tried to set the spot color to Overprint in the Trap Basis column in the prescan.
Both DieLine and Varnish settings will generate ps files in the RSI folder. Comes in handy for sending DieLine PDFs to an outside bindery for DieCutting. Check the Rampage documentation for issues regarding these.
I do not set traps outside of Rampage.
Quote from: Skryber on March 09, 2009, 10:28:06 AMQuote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 10:26:39 AMThe OP was NOT from InD, just set in the rip in rampage....
So did Stiv's way work for you?
No, not really (the file did not trap under the foil, even though I tried ripping the foil as varnish and dieline). When you open the file, the trap STILL says its an overprint (probably the basis for a varnish). Still working on it, but don't understand quite why. If I rip without the foil, though, it will trap.
Quote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 10:52:15 AMQuote from: Skryber on March 09, 2009, 10:28:06 AMQuote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 10:26:39 AMThe OP was NOT from InD, just set in the rip in rampage....
So did Stiv's way work for you?
No, not really (the file did not trap under the foil, even though I tried ripping the foil as varnish and dieline). When you open the file, the trap STILL says its an overprint (probably the basis for a varnish). Still working on it, but don't understand quite why. If I rip without the foil, though, it will trap.
Can you change the desity and behavior of the varnish? Set it to 5.0 density, and transparent if you can... I know I can do it in Apogee X, but you could do it in InDesign as well.
You know, for the longest time, our Die line trap basis in pre-scan wouldn't overprint unless we manually set it to. It would knock-out. But it was fixed 2 upgrades ago. Which version did you say you had? I'm sure Stiv will come up with some fancy trapping. If you're in a hurry, just rip them separately I guess. But I don't have that problem here, so I don't think I can create this problem, I'll give it a shot. Can you hand trap what is under the foil?
I'm attaching a reduced file size version of the file if there's any takers....I've tried ripping with it set to varnish, overprint and dieline to no avail. However, if you delete the foil in pitstop and re-rip, it will trap. You'll see what I mean.
Quote from: Skryber on March 09, 2009, 11:02:44 AMYou know, for the longest time, our Die line trap basis in pre-scan wouldn't overprint unless we manually set it to. It would knock-out. But it was fixed 2 upgrades ago. Which version did you say you had? I'm sure Stiv will come up with some fancy trapping. If you're in a hurry, just rip them separately I guess. But I don't have that problem here, so I don't think I can create this problem, I'll give it a shot. Can you hand trap what is under the foil?
yeah, that's exactly what I had to do (obviously, quicker and easier if Rampage just did it itself)
Quote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 11:17:28 AMQuote from: Skryber on March 09, 2009, 11:02:44 AMYou know, for the longest time, our Die line trap basis in pre-scan wouldn't overprint unless we manually set it to. It would knock-out. But it was fixed 2 upgrades ago. Which version did you say you had? I'm sure Stiv will come up with some fancy trapping. If you're in a hurry, just rip them separately I guess. But I don't have that problem here, so I don't think I can create this problem, I'll give it a shot. Can you hand trap what is under the foil?
yeah, that's exactly what I had to do (obviously, quicker and easier if Rampage just did it itself)
You did what? Hand trapped or ripped separate?
Quote from: Skryber on March 09, 2009, 11:21:49 AMQuote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 11:17:28 AMQuote from: Skryber on March 09, 2009, 11:02:44 AMYou know, for the longest time, our Die line trap basis in pre-scan wouldn't overprint unless we manually set it to. It would knock-out. But it was fixed 2 upgrades ago. Which version did you say you had? I'm sure Stiv will come up with some fancy trapping. If you're in a hurry, just rip them separately I guess. But I don't have that problem here, so I don't think I can create this problem, I'll give it a shot. Can you hand trap what is under the foil?
yeah, that's exactly what I had to do (obviously, quicker and easier if Rampage just did it itself)
Hand trapped
You did what? Hand trapped or ripped separate?
oooo, I really screwed that up....I hand trapped the file (which was alot of fun because I didn't know that nifty trick that Stiv just told me about control apple clicking to get beneath layers and everytime I clicked on anything, I got the gold foil box.
Quote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 11:33:50 AMoooo, I really screwed that up....I hand trapped the file (which was alot of fun because I didn't know that nifty trick that Stiv just told me about control apple clicking to get beneath layers and everytime I clicked on anything, I got the gold foil box.
Since you can only select one object at a time clicking through layers, I will set the spot to overprint and then do not print. Send it back into trap edit and fix the traps, then re-queue the page turning on the spot color this time.
So it is RIP page, set spot to overprint in trap column and do not print. RIP page, Edit traps, RIP page, re-queue back through single page RIP and turn on the spot this time.
I use this technique when I have a shitload of trap edits to make.
Quote from: Stiv on March 09, 2009, 12:26:19 PMQuote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 11:33:50 AMoooo, I really screwed that up....I hand trapped the file (which was alot of fun because I didn't know that nifty trick that Stiv just told me about control apple clicking to get beneath layers and everytime I clicked on anything, I got the gold foil box.
Since you can only select one object at a time clicking through layers, I will set the spot to overprint and then do not print. Send it back into trap edit and fix the traps, then re-queue the page turning on the spot color this time.
So it is RIP page, set spot to overprint in trap column and do not print. RIP page, Edit traps, RIP page, re-queue back through single page RIP and turn on the spot this time.
I use this technique when I have a shitload of trap edits to make.
But when you requeue (re-rip) doesn't it re-trap also? Then it would do the same thing with not trapping under the foil.
Oh and when I hand trapped it, I used the find selection and selected by color....it was fairly quick and simple (only I had to do it 5x for 5 different lots)
I'll be damned, that actually worked. Ok, so now can you explain to me why when you re-rip it through the single page queue, it keeps the traps from before (even though it's set to go through the trap again?) I would think that it would revert back to not trapping under the foil since it doesn't do that when you rip it OP originally. Again, I think logic has no place here.
Quote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 12:47:08 PMI'll be damned, that actually worked. Ok, so now can you explain to me why when you re-rip it through the single page queue, it keeps the traps from before (even though it's set to go through the trap again?) I would think that it would revert back to not trapping under the foil since it doesn't do that when you rip it OP originally. Again, I think logic has no place here.
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you, just when I'm starting to like you. :wink:
I used trap engine and it worked for me without editing the trap. I set the foil as a varnish.
maybe because you're using 11? I'm still at 10.6 :angry:
That is probably it, 11 had some nice upgrades for trap engine.
Quote from: Stiv on March 09, 2009, 01:02:35 PMQuote from: determined on March 09, 2009, 12:47:08 PMI'll be damned, that actually worked. Ok, so now can you explain to me why when you re-rip it through the single page queue, it keeps the traps from before (even though it's set to go through the trap again?) I would think that it would revert back to not trapping under the foil since it doesn't do that when you rip it OP originally. Again, I think logic has no place here.
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you, just when I'm starting to like you. :wink:
Ve have vays of making you talk.... :evil:
We don't use PDF trap engine due to some irregularities we encountered in trapping of certain files.
I don't see us upgrading to v11 for the near future. :cry:
Yeah, I don't have problems with the trap either and I'm also using 11. All of our trapping issues were resolved with the upgrade. (Like the dieline trap basis knocking out.) Hopefully you can get it soon. Especially if you have a nice server set up.