Is anyone using a JDF workfow?

[Exploded]

I was wondering if anyone is working with a JDF workflow? From what I understand it is a all in one info package for a print job that contains impo and all other info that a job requires, binding, gillo, ect. So a MIS (Management Information Services aka print quoting system) like Prism spits out a jdf file we load it up into Preps or Prinergy and all the impo and everything is already done. All we do is load up the correct PDFs and fire it off.

If I understand correctly... ?

[Marktonk]

Hi Exploded,

I could elaborate on Prinect but here is a link as to what Andrew Tribute saw at Drupa on our booth.

http://printceoblog.com/2008/06/get-prinected-real-integration

In case you were not aware, Heidelberg was one of the founding fathers of JDF. We, in conjunction with Agfa, MAN Roland and Adobe instituted it and then turned it over to the CIP3 organization for independent management of the concept. That being said, our Printready workflow (now known as Prepress Manager) was the first workflow programmed with JDF at it's core. JDF was not just added to an existing workflow. So our experience with JDF is quite extensive, first using in Prepress with worklow and imposition then into our MIS, followed by press and at Drupa moving into post press. One very important point that differentiates us is we have one Master JDF, so as the JDF is created by the MIS, it is stored on a centralized server. As Prepress, Press or Postpress use or edit, the Master JDF grows with the information being fed back. As Andrew points out, there is much more to JDF then just prepress or MIS, it is the whole shop encompassing MIS, Prepress, Digital, Press, Post Press and Remote Access.

Regards,

Mark

PS when looking at MIS, they have to support JDF and not all do, check with the MIS manufacture. However, there are many degrees of support. One is the JDF stripping paramaters, not all support them. This is necessary to be read by the prepress workflow to automatically generate the imposition templates.

[Laurens]

I am also curious how many people actually use a full MIS to JDF workflow including stripping. The theory is nice but in reality quotes in an MIS system are seldom done based on actual press availability (which is not yet known at the time a quote is made) but on the basis of the cheapest possible production cost (fastest & biggest press, generic paper stock). Once the job gets to prepress and its deadline, reality kicks in and press allocation changes, the paper changes and based on the actual page content the imposition may require changes. Usually the folks working with the MIS system don't want to take responsability for changing the job definition to an actual working imposition scheme and the prepress guys are supposed to stay away from the MIS system and stick to their prepress workflow. I have yet to hear from an MIS system that is willing to read back stripping information coming from a prepress system. Communication always is top-down from MIS to prepress, except for simple status and job tracking feedback.

If only reality was as nice as the demos...

..... and yes, I used to be one of those demonstrators  :wink:

[beermonster]

i'd really like to see jdf handle a complex packaging layout, with 5 designs, work n turn, embossing (add all manner of other things nasty here) - all automatically - that'd be fun

sure they all have "for packaging" stuff - i just aint see a real good one manage it yet

[almaink]

Adobe has a good video on JDF here.
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/video_workshop/?id=vid0212

[The Stevinator]

i'd really like to see jdf handle a complex packaging layout, with 5 designs, work n turn, embossing (add all manner of other things nasty here) - all automatically - that'd be fun

sure they all have "for packaging" stuff - i just aint see a real good one manage it yet

That's true,  there's never going to be a one stop shop solution for automating things.  However, JDF can make a shop a great deal more efficient.  Especially if they want to integrate any web to print, or digital solutions.  It's all about what technology best serves your business and customers needs.

[prepressDog]

No...Just slow us down right now. (imo)
Our guys cant drill 3 hole centered 1/2 the time. JDF...HaHA

[beermonster]

haaa well i think we can beat that - jdf or not, the shotgun cartridge cartons we glued that came apart when they were filling LIVE rounds into them - i'd like to see mighty J.D.F. solve that one!

pah - no way.

[ratintrap]

haaa well i think we can beat that - jdf or not, the shotgun cartridge cartons we glued that came apart when they were filling LIVE rounds into them - i'd like to see mighty J.D.F. solve that one!

pah - no way.

 :shocked:

-Rat

[Marktonk]

I am also curious how many people actually use a full MIS to JDF workflow including stripping. The theory is nice but in reality quotes in an MIS system are seldom done based on actual press availability (which is not yet known at the time a quote is made) but on the basis of the cheapest possible production cost (fastest & biggest press, generic paper stock). Once the job gets to prepress and its deadline, reality kicks in and press allocation changes, the paper changes and based on the actual page content the imposition may require changes. Usually the folks working with the MIS system don't want to take responsibility for changing the job definition to an actual working imposition scheme and the prepress guys are supposed to stay away from the MIS system and stick to their prepress workflow. I have yet to hear from an MIS system that is willing to read back stripping information coming from a prepress system. Communication always is top-down from MIS to prepress, except for simple status and job tracking feedback.

If only reality was as nice as the demos...

..... and yes, I used to be one of those demonstrators  :wink:

Lauren,

There are a few ways to work this. Within our system, the Prepress Operator always has the possibility of editing the imposition, be it a change or one that is complex and best not left up to the MIS (multiple signatures for different webs along with sheetfed, or in the case of Beermonster, packaging, which is also complex). In fact, the prepress operator can watch the imposition being built if he chooses to. So if a job changes from one press to another, you can go back to MIS or or prepress can fix it with a few clicks and add comments as to what was done. This is all reported back into the master JDF via JMF. If a job is going to be repeated, you recall the JDF to implement it.

Other information is also passed down such as job name, customer info, e-mail address (comes in handy if you send soft proofs, in fact , that could be automated), paper type and  size, ink used, binding information be it perfect bound, saddle stitched, number of colors, dot shapes, screen ruling, type of screen system and more. Just think, you would just open up the JDF and this information already be as part of you prepress workflow, you would not have to rekey it in.

If you had our Pressroom Manger, we also would store all the information used for the press run, including the settings for oked color,  feed head set, settings for side joggers for the paper, gripper height at in-feed, side guide, air setting on feeder, printing pressure, rear and side delivery guides and spray powder length (if you have a Presett Feeder Plus).

Regards,

Mark

[Marktonk]

haaa well i think we can beat that - jdf or not, the shotgun cartridge cartons we glued that came apart when they were filling LIVE rounds into them - i'd like to see mighty J.D.F. solve that one!

pah - no way.

Hey beer,

No one said JDF could fix glue....now are you sure you just were not suppose to have ammo in the U.K. :tongue:, you have pretty strick guns laws, don't you?

I had fun with shooting a S&W 500 Magnum on vacation (bullet is 12.7 mm or .50 caliber)...that will fix anything and everything with or without JDF.

Regards,

Mark

[Marktonk]

Some more info on our imposition and JDF. Our imposition sw started in the early 1990's as Signastation. We programmed  to version 9. When we decided to to implement JDF, we had to completely redesign and rewrite the code to support it, renaming it Signa Station (version 3.5). This has a wizard driven interface, as you populate the information, it starts to created the templates. The operator has full control over the imposition scheme.

So when a MIS sends stripping parameters to Prinect Prepress Manager as part of the JDF, the Signa Station is launched in the background and reads the info to populate the wizard. The operator has the choice to be automatic in the background or can watch it build. Even if automatic, because this uses Signa Station to generate the templates, the operator has full control and editing capabilities.  This is because Signa is a complete imposition program that can run as a stand alone application with full visual control. If you did not have a full blown imposition program that allows such flexibility, I could understand the concern, particularly  with more complex imposition schemes.

Regards,

Mark

[beermonster]

quote mark tonk

Hey beer,

No one said JDF could fix glue....now are you sure you just were not suppose to have ammo in the U.K. , you have pretty strick guns laws, don't you?

I had fun with shooting a S&W 500 Magnum on vacation (bullet is 12.7 mm or .50 caliber)...that will fix anything and everything with or without JDF.



haaaa can that magnum fix this awkward customer i have please :cheesy:

gun laws are strict here yes - so now the kids are killing each other with knives :sad:

[Marktonk]

gun laws are strict here yes - so now the kids are killing each other with knives :sad:

Sadly, when the knives are taken away, they will use bats (baseball or cricket) and when that is taken away, they will use rocks......


Regards,

Mark

[The Stevinator]

gun laws are strict here yes - so now the kids are killing each other with knives :sad:

Sadly, when the knives are taken away, they will use bats (baseball or cricket) and when that is taken away, they will use rocks......


Regards,

Mark

That just sounds like good people watching to me.....