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General Category => Tips & Tricks => Topic started by: Diddler on April 27, 2017, 09:47:17 PM

Title: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Diddler on April 27, 2017, 09:47:17 PM
I've been given the "only" files that the client has, which are already imposed as a Saddle Stitched book. We now have to print this book as a Perfect bound. It is imposed as 4pp Sheetwork currently, we want to print as 16pp Perfect. As i know that I can't use this impo as currently stands, I need to split to seperate pages and re-impo. Has anyone a quick workaround or option for doing this? Apart from cutting out each individual page in XMF or pitstop or worse still place back into Indy and re export.

Hope that one of you out there in the magical prepress land can help me out.

Cheers
Brad

Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on April 28, 2017, 06:32:10 AM
Unfortunately I think the Indy option is the best thing to try.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Tracy on April 28, 2017, 08:07:25 AM
Split pages in half in pitstop isn't a good option?
It will add new marks and center, you would just have to rearrange the pages.

Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Farabomb on April 28, 2017, 09:31:45 AM
Personally, I'd place one in indy, take the measurements and just type them in. Prinergy has a split spreads option but I still haven't gotten the hang of it. The main reason for that is I haven't gotten spreads in years.

I know this means I'll be getting 5 in the next week but we need more work, no matter how shitty.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: zox on April 28, 2017, 10:02:41 AM
Pitstop works fine as Tracy pointed out, but you have to reshuffle the pages.
We are using Heidelberg Printready and their Acrobat plugin has this option that is really good as it gives you control over splitting and shuffling at the same time so you get proper result without doing anything after.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on April 28, 2017, 11:19:29 AM
Pitstop and Prinergy both have the ability to split a spread in half which will work if the imposed sheets only have the two pages on it  which would in this case although you would have the extra sheet info on each page not to mention the new file wouldn't have proper trim and bleed boxes. In would be nightmare on a web sheet that might have up to 32 (or more) pages on each sheet.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: AaronH on April 28, 2017, 05:54:07 PM
Hey Diddler, if you right click on a page in the reading order in XMF, you can split for left binding. You'll want to select all the pages you want split, then you'll get a menu with how you want it done. You'll have to rearrange the pages, but it is pretty convenient.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Diddler on May 01, 2017, 05:57:50 PM
Quote from: AaronH on April 28, 2017, 05:54:07 PMHey Diddler, if you right click on a page in the reading order in XMF, you can split for left binding. You'll want to select all the pages you want split, then you'll get a menu with how you want it done. You'll have to rearrange the pages, but it is pretty convenient.
I know I can split the pages as spreads in XMF but I have 4pp to view and rotated head to head. Splitting as a Left/right bind or brochure just won't work for me in this instance. I have tried to KIB but to no avail.
Looks like it am stuck going down the Indesign path and export as a new PDF. 
Maybe I should work out an action in Pitstop for the next occasion this happens.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: frailer on May 02, 2017, 05:15:49 AM
If I'm reading you right, you have Exported PDFs of, effectively, 4-to-view sheets, as though to be rendered for plate, (saddle stitch).
So really, sorta 'stitched' head-butted' printers' spreads? So, they're useless, as pairs, for the transition to Burst. Bugger. (I suspect someone's hiding something from someone, if you can't get you hands on the original single pages, but it is the conniving rug-pullin world of print).
 Isn't there something under Scripts, in Indy, that will serially place pages?

But first you'd have to copy the file, then Rotate all pageseither 90º left or 90º right, on each file.

These could possibly be Script-placed as DPSs. (Step 1), anchoring so that 2 of the pages are effectively discarded in each run.
These you could possibly then bring in to XMF, and do Split Pages for Binding, as previously suggested. File labelling/numbering would be critical. But the advantage would be you'd be sending em straight into a Burst Impo in XMF. A Joyce Mayne situation (only Aussies will get this).

Are you sure you haven't, perhaps inadvertently, insulted a print rep recently. Someone's trying to break your spirit by the looks.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Farabomb on May 02, 2017, 06:15:18 AM
Quote from: Diddler on May 01, 2017, 05:57:50 PM
Quote from: AaronH on April 28, 2017, 05:54:07 PMHey Diddler, if you right click on a page in the reading order in XMF, you can split for left binding. You'll want to select all the pages you want split, then you'll get a menu with how you want it done. You'll have to rearrange the pages, but it is pretty convenient.
I know I can split the pages as spreads in XMF but I have 4pp to view and rotated head to head. Splitting as a Left/right bind or brochure just won't work for me in this instance. I have tried to KIB but to no avail.
Looks like it am stuck going down the Indesign path and export as a new PDF.
Maybe I should work out an action in Pitstop for the next occasion this happens.
Whomever sent you imposed 4pg spreads needs to be brought out into the square and shot in the knees, left for a few hours to think about what they've done then made to work with only ragemaker for a month.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Possum on May 02, 2017, 03:22:44 PM
It was probably printed that way at another shop, client didn't pay the bill, so now you get the joy. Only with new job specs.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: born2print on May 03, 2017, 10:12:10 AM
just a wild thought, make your planning match the supplied imposition?
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Tracy on May 03, 2017, 12:39:38 PM
It went from Saddle stitch to perfect bind
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: born2print on May 03, 2017, 12:57:19 PM
ah, nvm
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: StudioMonkey on May 04, 2017, 04:03:10 AM
If these are the only files the client has, this is due to one of two reasons;
1) these are the only files supplied to the client by the designer
2) these are the first files they find and they can't be arsed to look properly

1) raises a question - why would the designer supply the client with imposed files?  Unless of course they got all the job files, which leads us back to 2)

BTW I would crop the pages down to single pages and reimpose in InDesign
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 04, 2017, 06:51:52 AM
I wonder how many total pages there are. Being perfect bound I would guess quite a few so doing it in InDesign would work but might be very time consuming. Split pages in Pitstop might work to split the flats in half where they are head to head and then split them again where the spreads fold but then you are going to end up with pages that aren't centered and not rotated correctly so then those all have to be fixed manually as well. I still think I would just do it InDesign. There should be page trim marks on the flats so positioning shouldn't be hard. At least then you will get pages sized and rotated correctly. I would shoot them a high hourly price to do it and then sit back and take your time.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: wonderings on May 04, 2017, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: Joe on May 04, 2017, 06:51:52 AMI wonder how many total pages there are. Being perfect bound I would guess quite a few so doing it in InDesign would work but might be very time consuming. Split pages in Pitstop might work to split the flats in half where they are head to head and then split them again where the spreads fold but then you are going to end up with pages that aren't centered and not rotated correctly so then those all have to be fixed manually as well. I still think I would just do it InDesign. There should be page trim marks on the flats so positioning shouldn't be hard. At least then you will get pages sized and rotated correctly. I would shoot them a high hourly price to do it and then sit back and take your time.

That is what we do if it gets large. I can quickly fix a smaller book (32 page) in about 5 minutes or so. Just set the indesign document with 32 pages with facing pages. Add all pages and just quickly centre on each page. Export as PDF single pages and you are set to go. A lot of times you just need to tell the designer how to send it in properly, if they do not seem to care letting them know there is an additional setup charge now for files not print ready usually wakes them up, especially considering it is one box to check when exporting as PDF.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Farabomb on May 04, 2017, 10:04:19 AM
You assume they know what the output options mean.

I love it when I get every singe mark avilable... all .0023 from the trim.  :shoots_self:
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: wonderings on May 04, 2017, 12:41:47 PM
Quote from: Farabomb on May 04, 2017, 10:04:19 AMYou assume they know what the output options mean.

I love it when I get every singe mark avilable... all .0023 from the trim.  :shoots_self:

I swear designers think it makes them look more professional and knowledgeable if they check everything.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: DigiCorn on May 04, 2017, 12:52:48 PM
Quote from: StudioMonkey on May 04, 2017, 04:03:10 AMIf these are the only files the client has, this is due to one of two reasons;
1) these are the only files supplied to the client by the designer
2) these are the first files they find and they can't be arsed to look properly

1) raises a question - why would the designer supply the client with imposed files?  Unless of course they got all the job files, which leads us back to 2)

BTW I would crop the pages down to single pages and reimpose in InDesign
Yeah - set up the new size individual pages in spreads (facing pages) and use the multipage import pdf script. You will have to fix the OFC and OBC manually, but as long as the original document is reader spreads and not printer spreads it should work like a charm and be finished very quickly. Bleed could be a bit trickier though, depending on the bleed.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 04, 2017, 12:54:30 PM
Quote from: DigiCorn on May 04, 2017, 12:52:48 PM
Quote from: StudioMonkey on May 04, 2017, 04:03:10 AMIf these are the only files the client has, this is due to one of two reasons;
1) these are the only files supplied to the client by the designer
2) these are the first files they find and they can't be arsed to look properly

1) raises a question - why would the designer supply the client with imposed files?  Unless of course they got all the job files, which leads us back to 2)

BTW I would crop the pages down to single pages and reimpose in InDesign
Yeah - set up the new size individual pages in spreads (facing pages) and use the multipage import pdf script. You will have to fix the OFC and OBC manually, but as long as the original document is reader spreads and not printer spreads it should work like a charm and be finished very quickly. Bleed could be a bit trickier though, depending on the bleed.

It is 4 page flats where the two individual spreads are printer spreads.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: DigiCorn on May 04, 2017, 01:16:52 PM
Quote from: Joe on May 04, 2017, 12:54:30 PM
Quote from: DigiCorn on May 04, 2017, 12:52:48 PM
Quote from: StudioMonkey on May 04, 2017, 04:03:10 AMIf these are the only files the client has, this is due to one of two reasons;
1) these are the only files supplied to the client by the designer
2) these are the first files they find and they can't be arsed to look properly

1) raises a question - why would the designer supply the client with imposed files?  Unless of course they got all the job files, which leads us back to 2)

BTW I would crop the pages down to single pages and reimpose in InDesign
Yeah - set up the new size individual pages in spreads (facing pages) and use the multipage import pdf script. You will have to fix the OFC and OBC manually, but as long as the original document is reader spreads and not printer spreads it should work like a charm and be finished very quickly. Bleed could be a bit trickier though, depending on the bleed.

It is 4 page flats where the two individual spreads are printer spreads.
bogus!
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Diddler on May 04, 2017, 07:07:10 PM
Thanks for the input folks. But I think this 104pp book can't be done. Yes i have tried to go down the pitstop path but things got messy. The Indesign option was the easiest but after doing 28pp as a test the line ups just weren't close enough. It has hairline rules going across pages all the way through the book. I'm going to admit defeat on this one, I just don't have the time/days available to get this to work.

Oh and BTW on the side of the imposed PDF is another print companies logo. 

Now time to tell the Sales Rep. 
Which I know the answer again will be "just make it work" 
:facepalm:
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 04, 2017, 07:21:26 PM
Hey can you send me one of the PDF flats to test something? I have an idea with a new feature in Pitstop 2017. Just send a link to joe at b4print dot com if possible.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Diddler on May 04, 2017, 10:36:52 PM
Quote from: Joe on May 04, 2017, 07:21:26 PMHey can you send me one of the PDF flats to test something? I have an idea with a new feature in Pitstop 2017. Just send a link to joe at b4print dot com if possible.
Done 
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: StudioMonkey on May 05, 2017, 03:21:27 AM
Quote from: Diddler on May 04, 2017, 07:07:10 PMThanks for the input folks. But I think this 104pp book can't be done. Yes i have tried to go down the pitstop path but things got messy. The Indesign option was the easiest but after doing 28pp as a test the line ups just weren't close enough. It has hairline rules going across pages all the way through the book. I'm going to admit defeat on this one, I just don't have the time/days available to get this to work.

Oh and BTW on the side of the imposed PDF is another print companies logo.

Now time to tell the Sales Rep.
Which I know the answer again will be "just make it work"
:facepalm:
Find them. Call them up.  They may be OK sending you the original files or PDFs.  Even for a small fee, its better than you wasting your time.  And it makes the job doable.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 05, 2017, 07:21:56 AM
The other printer probably got stiffed. Would we do that if another printer called up asking for the files? Not on your life.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Farabomb on May 05, 2017, 07:28:31 AM
We'd give up the files.

For the full cost of the job plus an added asshole fee.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 05, 2017, 07:29:21 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on May 05, 2017, 07:28:31 AMWe'd give up the files.

For the full cost of the job plus an added asshole fee.

Well yeah...we're stubborn but not stupid. :rotf:
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Farabomb on May 05, 2017, 08:18:49 AM
Prepress may not be stupid but I'm not sure about upper management.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 05, 2017, 08:22:11 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on May 05, 2017, 08:18:49 AMPrepress may not be stupid but I'm not sure about upper management.


They do some silly and strange things but giving away their money is not one of them. At least my owners don't.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: abc on May 05, 2017, 08:45:39 AM
Any chance of getting that file that needs to be split?
Would like to have a play....
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Diddler on May 11, 2017, 12:12:17 AM
Anyone want to have a guess as to what has  just happened with this job.
Keep in mind I have probably spend over 30hrs of my time trying to figure out a solution on this one.
:facepalm:
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 11, 2017, 06:30:59 AM
They magically sent you the single pages?
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Farabomb on May 11, 2017, 07:47:05 AM
HA!

Can I have some of what you're smoking Joe?
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 11, 2017, 07:55:17 AM
Meet me out by the dumpster!
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: andyfest on May 11, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
Quote from: Joe on May 11, 2017, 07:55:17 AMMeet me out by the dumpster!
I'm already out there throwing out all of yesterday's work!
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Farabomb on May 11, 2017, 08:09:21 AM
Be there in a minute.  :banana:
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: DigiCorn on May 11, 2017, 12:53:24 PM
Quote from: andyfest on May 11, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
Quote from: Joe on May 11, 2017, 07:55:17 AMMeet me out by the dumpster!
I'm already out there throwing out all of yesterday's work!
One of our customers is a HUGE eco firm that does solar panels and clean energy. They're in several states. In the past two weeks, we've thrown out over 5 million envelopes and over 5 million combined preprinted shells because they will no longer be using them.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: frailer on May 11, 2017, 06:59:14 PM
Quote from: Diddler on May 11, 2017, 12:12:17 AMAnyone want to have a guess as to what has  just happened with this job.
Keep in mind I have probably spend over 30hrs of my time trying to figure out a solution on this one.
:facepalm:
a) Cancelled it. Changed their minds.    

b)  Gone to another printer.

c) Customer just went under, owing muchly.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Diddler on May 11, 2017, 10:07:46 PM
Quote from: Joe on May 11, 2017, 06:30:59 AMThey magically sent you the single pages?
Joe, you've done this prepress thing before, haven't you!
Your correct.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Diddler on May 11, 2017, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: frailer on May 11, 2017, 06:59:14 PM
Quote from: Diddler on May 11, 2017, 12:12:17 AMAnyone want to have a guess as to what has  just happened with this job.
Keep in mind I have probably spend over 30hrs of my time trying to figure out a solution on this one.
:facepalm:
a) Cancelled it. Changed their minds.   

b)  Gone to another printer.

c) Customer just went under, owing muchly.
I wish it was A) but Joe takes the prize on this one.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 12, 2017, 06:27:57 AM
Quote from: Diddler on May 11, 2017, 10:07:46 PM
Quote from: Joe on May 11, 2017, 06:30:59 AMThey magically sent you the single pages?
Joe, you've done this prepress thing before, haven't you!
Your correct.

They probably had to wait for the person that originally created them to get back from vacation.

I called a customer last night about their funky pages and she told me she was actually on the beach in Florida while talking to me.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: frailer on May 12, 2017, 06:40:48 AM
Quote from: Diddler on May 11, 2017, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: frailer on May 11, 2017, 06:59:14 PM
Quote from: Diddler on May 11, 2017, 12:12:17 AMAnyone want to have a guess as to what has  just happened with this job.
Keep in mind I have probably spend over 30hrs of my time trying to figure out a solution on this one.
:facepalm:
a) Cancelled it. Changed their minds.   

b)  Gone to another printer.

c) Customer just went under, owing muchly.
I wish it was A) but Joe takes the prize on this one.
Natch....
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: David on May 12, 2017, 08:04:48 AM
Quote from: Joe on May 12, 2017, 06:27:57 AMThey probably had to wait for the person that originally created them to get back from vacation.

I called a customer last night about their funky pages and she told me she was actually on the beach in Florida while talking to me.


weird, I was on the beach and heard some loud talking... musta been her.    :shoots_self:
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: Joe on May 12, 2017, 08:28:44 AM
Quote from: david on May 12, 2017, 08:04:48 AM
Quote from: Joe on May 12, 2017, 06:27:57 AMThey probably had to wait for the person that originally created them to get back from vacation.

I called a customer last night about their funky pages and she told me she was actually on the beach in Florida while talking to me.

weird, I was on the beach and heard some loud talking... musta been her.    :shoots_self:

If you see her again can you show her how to create a page at trim size and add bleed? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Split already imposed book to single pages
Post by: andyfest on May 12, 2017, 10:39:03 AM
Quote from: Joe on May 12, 2017, 08:28:44 AM
Quote from: david on May 12, 2017, 08:04:48 AM
Quote from: Joe on May 12, 2017, 06:27:57 AMThey probably had to wait for the person that originally created them to get back from vacation.

I called a customer last night about their funky pages and she told me she was actually on the beach in Florida while talking to me.

weird, I was on the beach and heard some loud talking... musta been her.    :shoots_self:

If you see her again can you show her how to create a page at trim size and add bleed? Thanks in advance.
:lmao: