ROOM or NORM?

Stiv · February 05, 2008, 07:22:57 AM

I want to take the prepress to an all PDF workflow.

I have Rampage 10.5 and currently use ROOM with the EPS/nPDF profile.

Have you used ROOM and now using NORM?

Have you tested NORM and stayed with ROOM?

Would you please comment on your decision?

almaink · February 05, 2008, 07:49:04 AM

Welcome to the forums. I have the same version of RAMpage and I use a complete PDF workflow. I only use ROOM never NORM. Yes I tested NORM and saw no difference between the two, as so I really see no need for it here. Since a NORM file gets ripped every time it's output tho it just seems to me like variables can be introduced if it's used.

Stiv · February 07, 2008, 06:59:16 AM

As I understand it, the PDF must be absolutely correct from the beginning. We will have a 68 page mag that contains 150+ ads sent to us from everywhere. As you can imagine, the ads are all flavors of PDF and EPS. We must remap colors in prescan every job. To rework the PDF so that the colors are correct throughout would take forever if it is even possible to. And since we are not Time/Life Mag, we cannot require too much from these Mags or we will lose them.

Since you use NORM are you only using your own files? Do you have extensive rework on submitted files before RIPping?

On a side, have you tried any of the Ghent PDF tests on the NORM workflow?

almaink · February 07, 2008, 12:15:23 PM

What I do is this. I place all my PDF's generated from various applications into a layout in InDesign. That layout is sized to our plates and sheet size. I have numerous templates already made for standard and non- standard layout so at this point I just re-link the multipage PDF. I check the swatches pallet and see if I have conflicting PDF to process numbers and if I do I remap them in Indy. Then I just export that layout to my RAMpage server and rip. Pretty sweet and since thats the way I do it I really see no need for NORM or even OPI using FPO's.
Took awhile to build all my templates and on occasion I still have to make new ones, but once they are made they can be used over and over with just a relink. One thing I will add, if you are going to work with PDF's PIT Stop or something like it is a necessity.

ninjaPB_43 · February 07, 2008, 12:57:51 PM

Quote from: almaink on February 07, 2008, 12:15:23 PMWhat I do is this. I place all my PDF's generated from various applications into a layout in InDesign. That layout is sized to our plates and sheet size. I have numerous templates already made for standard and non- standard layout so at this point I just re-link the multipage PDF. I check the swatches pallet and see if I have conflicting PDF to process numbers and if I do I remap them in Indy. Then I just export that layout to my RAMpage server and rip. Pretty sweet and since thats the way I do it I really see no need for NORM or even OPI using FPO's.
Took awhile to build all my templates and on occasion I still have to make new ones, but once they are made they can be used over and over with just a relink. One thing I will add, if you are going to work with PDF's PIT Stop or something like it is a necessity.

beaut of a setup there alma, makes life SO easy, dont it? its exactly how I run and its a snap most of the time.. I could almost do this in my sleep. Only difference is running into Trueflow instead of RAMpage.

almaink · February 07, 2008, 02:30:25 PM

yep it's a dream and to think we used to strip film...

Stiv · February 08, 2008, 07:07:11 AM

Sounds good.

I have, I would guess, 150 layouts that I use monthly. I have to build new ones daily. In my Preps folder I have over 3500 templates. Yikes, I know.

Here's my primary workflow. EPS w/OPI or PDF files into Rampage, Preps to impose FPO, RIP impo's and then plot. I have PitStop, use it and love it.

I wanted to try the NORM flow but I don't think my current flow is appropriate.

Stiv · August 23, 2010, 10:50:57 AM

Resurrecting an ancient thread....

We may have come to a fork in the road where we are going to be forced to use NORM as our workflow.

Thoughts? Anyone been here before that has advice?

DigiCorn · August 23, 2010, 12:34:54 PM

Advice? Good luck. Have experimented with NORM and could not find it useful, reliable or consistent. Any reason as to why you're changing from ROOM?

G_Town · August 23, 2010, 02:27:03 PM

Quote from: digital@sig-1.com on August 23, 2010, 12:34:54 PMAdvice? Good luck. Have experimented with NORM and could not find it useful, reliable or consistent. Any reason as to why you're changing from ROOM?

What's all this talk about Norm hanging out in a room?

Stiv · August 23, 2010, 03:28:17 PM

Quote from: digital@sig-1.com on August 23, 2010, 12:34:54 PMAdvice? Good luck. Have experimented with NORM and could not find it useful, reliable or consistent. Any reason as to why you're changing from ROOM?

We are going to stop making impo proofs and move to proofing on the digital press. I need to print from the same RIPped file that is being sent to the CTP devices. Rampage v12 has an option for doing just that. I don't know much more than that right now. The workflow, AFAIK, is based on a NORM worflow.

Lumpy · August 23, 2010, 03:31:03 PM

Quote from: G_Town on August 23, 2010, 02:27:03 PM
Quote from: digital@sig-1.com on August 23, 2010, 12:34:54 PMAdvice? Good luck. Have experimented with NORM and could not find it useful, reliable or consistent. Any reason as to why you're changing from ROOM?

What's all this talk about Norm hanging out in a room?

Normalize and Rip once, output many. (acronyms) Although Norm isn't really an acronym is it?

David · August 24, 2010, 07:34:19 AM

NORM, is an acronym for 'Normalize Once Render Many'.

ROOM stands for 'Rip Once Output Many'

but then again, put Norm in a Room, he'll prolly just drink beer.

DigiCorn · August 24, 2010, 08:05:52 AM

Quote from: Stiv on August 23, 2010, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: digital@sig-1.com on August 23, 2010, 12:34:54 PMAdvice? Good luck. Have experimented with NORM and could not find it useful, reliable or consistent. Any reason as to why you're changing from ROOM?

We are going to stop making impo proofs and move to proofing on the digital press. I need to print from the same RIPped file that is being sent to the CTP devices. Rampage v12 has an option for doing just that. I don't know much more than that right now. The workflow, AFAIK, is based on a NORM worflow.

Why proof to a digital press unless you are running the job there, and feeding it from your RIP? If it's toner based like ours, the powder is opaque and won't mix the same and will never match on press... even color managed like ours (via an .icc on the Fiery). You might be lucky and have better equipment than our ghetto shop. We have Rampage and while they have apparently now a version with a optional module that can feed a digital press, but our version doesn't have that option.

Right now I feed a fat pdf into the Fiery and let it handle it. If I have issues, I rasterize it in Photoshop with our .icc to flatten and maintain color. But, if I were to do it via Rampage, I'd just RIP a .ps file from Rampage to a watched folder that automatically distills it to a pdf. Then I'd run the pdf to the digital press. It's all still ROOM.

Stiv · August 24, 2010, 09:12:05 AM

Quote from: digital@sig-1.com on August 24, 2010, 08:05:52 AMWhy proof to a digital press unless you are running the job there, and feeding it from your RIP?

Some of our jobs take a few shifts for impo proofs. (We have one hp5000 w/DoubleProof.)
The idea is that digital press proofs will be faster, cheaper and be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The impo layouts will be checked on the monitor. (Good luck.)
I need to proof using the RIPped file or I'm going to be paddling up Schitz Creek if the two don't match. As far as color matching the press, I don't give a shit. Oops, did I just write that?
Rampage v12 has an option that (AFAIK) is a rasterized PDF that is better than the normal PDF Proof Out.
I was under the impression, wrongly, that I need to move to NORM. I do not, I can stay with ROOM.

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ROOM or NORM?