Applying Creep

[frailer]

tinker25, I'm on east coast Australia. If I can post something today, I will. Am a relative newbie to XMF, about 7 months in. I have the necessary theory for applying creep, but haven't used it yet, though will be soon. It works quite differently to creep in other impo apps. You need Excel to give you a 'value' from input data. Then this value is applied in a field, and becomes a sort of co-efficient throughout the job, which XMF applies. Sounds more complicated than it actually is. I think FFEI are slack in not having better online accessibility to information and tutes, stuff like that.
PM me for your appropriate email address, or I can use the default one you supplied here. If your organisation blocks all or some attachments, I can upload to SendSpace and send you the link. I shall them send you the folder with all the info., including the (dot)xls file. If you don't have MS Office/Excel, you can download/install Open Office as I did for my creep stuff.
After that crisis is over, you can place some pics of where you are (Zambia?)...for our Gallery.   :grin:  The more the better.   This will be the only payment required.   :laugh:
Welcome to b4p.

[Joe]

It only makes sense that it is the # of pages, divided by 2 multiplied by the paper caliper. The Preps book says # of pages divided by 4 times the paper caliper times 2, but it works out to be the same.

I don't know where you got that formula but it's not from Preps. From the Preps 5.0 user guide:

[smg id=270]

And I agree with born and DCS. Use what works best for your situation. Their formula gives too much creep on newsprint on our heatset web press. Anyone is free to use any formula they wish.

And to your other question about applying it to only half of the book...a saddlestitch book is folded in half and there are 50 sheets on each side of the fold so applying the creeps in Preps, Preps starts at the middle and works it's way out to the outer pages. 50 sheets (100 pages) in each direction so yes, you only apply creep to half of the book because it is folded in HALF. Unless it's not enough for you like DCS and born say.

[tinker25]

Hi, all.

Thanks - I've suddenly got a lot more info on how creep works - just a note tho - whatever your final value (x) is, it becomes (x)-1 in your impo field to allow for the centre spread where you don't have creep....
I'm gonna be playing around with that to see how it adjusts the final output! If I learn anything, I'll update this post but a TOTAL *star* has stepped in and answered my Q - Gave me the Excel SS specifically for XMF + example breakdown and explanation. If anyone else needs it, I'll e-mail / post it across.

Cheers, happy peeps

[Joe]

Hi, all.

Thanks - I've suddenly got a lot more info on how creep works - just a note tho - whatever your final value (x) is, it becomes (x)-1 in your impo field to allow for the centre spread where you don't have creep....
I'm gonna be playing around with that to see how it adjusts the final output! If I learn anything, I'll update this post but a TOTAL *star* has stepped in and answered my Q - Gave me the Excel SS specifically for XMF + example breakdown and explanation. If anyone else needs it, I'll e-mail / post it across.

Cheers, happy peeps

Yes, that star is our resident XMF expert from the land of Oz.

Welcome to the forum.

[David]

Dividing the page count by four will give you the number of leaves which times the paper thickness will give you the amount of pushout to the center of the book.
Going from pg 1, which is the smallest amount of creep and then to the center spread which will be the greatest amount. From the center spread to the last page it will be the same as the front half, just in reverse order (going from large to small). Like in a 16 pg book, page 1 and 16 will have the same creep, pg 2 & 15 will have the same creep and so on.
Here's a screen cap of an excel file we use to calculate percentage creep in addition to numerical creep (this is a 32 page saddle stitch).
Saddle stitch and perfect bound are done the same, it's just that perfect bound books are usually just 16 pp forms stacked (so you apply the same 16pp creep to all forms) and saddle stitch books are crept based on the total number of pages.

but it's early and I may have left something out.

cheers and welcome to the forums tinker!

[tapdn]

...or you can do it the old fashion way. Collect the number of total sheets using the actual stock it will be printed on, fold and measure thickness at the spine/ fold. If it measures 1/8" then you creep is .125. Just saying. :rolleyes:

[David]

We actually get paper dummies made on all books of 12 pages or more to figure creep. It's SOP. No body gets away with not giving us one.

[tapdn]

We printed a set of proofs (when possible) on end rolls of the actual stock the job printed on for customer. CSR got the bright idea that we should print another set, fold, collate, stitch and trim the job. Only had a one sided printer, so this would mean taping the two sides together... I quit.  :laugh:

[born2print]

We actually get paper dummies made on all books of 12 pages or more to figure creep. It's SOP. No body gets away with not giving us one.

That's cool, we used to get real dummies all the time. Now it's very rare unfortunately.

[David]

oh yeah, we have some real dummies around as well

[born2print]

ba-da-bum!  :grin:

Honestly, I prefer to calculate it. The last of the dummies I was getting were poorly made and you'd get 2 different measurements per each half of the book.

[David]

I'm the resident creep nazi, they bring me a dummy, I check the stitches and face trims, if it's loose and the pages don't have a flush face, they go away and get me a better one.

no ifs, ands, or buts...

we've had to reprint stuff due to bad creep and the way it was figured.

I can get my creep several ways:
1) I get a paper dummy (use a ruler and my excel file)
2) I have a micrometer (and do the math)
3) and the Esko imposition has a killer creep calculator that uses the paper thickness.

[gnubler]

I'm the resident creep nazi, they bring me a dummy, I check the stitches and face trims, if it's loose and the pages don't have a flush face, they go away and get me a better one.

no ifs, ands, or buts...

we've had to reprint stuff due to bad creep and the way it was figured.

I can get my creep several ways:
1) I get a paper dummy (use a ruler and my excel file)
2) I have a micrometer (and do the math)
3) and the Esko imposition has a killer creep calculator that uses the paper thickness.

resident creep nazi
dummy
stitches
face trim
flush
killer

I think this post is enough to get DCS started on a new drawing or a nice bedtime story for his offspring.

[David]

all we need is a nice, dried up corpse...

[Ear]

I too am used to the old Preps way of creeping, like Born, DCS and others mentioned. Turns out in XMF, all you need to do is mic the paper, enter sheet thickness as a negative number and it does the rest. Takes all the fun out of it.  :rolleyes: