Hi All,
We use a custom Spot Colour "KEYLINE" (M: 100; Y: 30) to indicate perf lines and other printing marks.
We want this colour to show on our soft proofs, but not appear on our plates, nor knock out.
We have defined this colour in Ink Management as a Die Line, and set it to not print.
It does not show on plates from the spot colour queues, however it does knock out.
On the CMYK queues this spot is converted to process and appears on the plates. CMYK colour conversion is done using action list in Preflight.
Is there any way to have this colour ALWAYS be spot AND overprint, never appearing on the plates or interacting with any other ink.
We had this system in place on Apogee before moving to XMF about a year ago, with rushed installation/training.
Thanks
another antipodean
I have never had an issue with Spot overprints in XMF
did you get it to work?
I think you can get XMF to recognize the specific "Die line" spot color
but not overprint it every time that would have to come from the file.
XMF will save various "Die Lines" in the Ink Pool
so your "Die Line" color can change, took me a bit to figure this out!
We use a Pitstop action loaded in the job preflight section to set any of our die line colors to overprint.
I don't use the pitstop actions in XMF, Good info!
maybe that will work for BS Print
I'm a bit of a control freak with my files ;D
Quote from: pabney on February 20, 2024, 01:47:43 PMWe use a Pitstop action loaded in the job preflight section to set any of our die line colors to overprint.
I hadn't considered that.
I guess I could also use an action to exclude the dieline from converting to CMYK - with a whole lot of research.
Don't suppose you have a copy of that script?
Cheers
Sure. All this does is ensure that any of the various die line names we use are set to overprint. We don't use XMF to convert our colors to cmyk.
Not used XMF, but in its color library where you define how to treat the color are there options like Transparent or Dieline? Prinergy and Prinect let you define that and it informs the rip how to handle it. Classifying as dieline means it always overprints, never plates, and allows colors underneath to trap to each other.
Quote from: pabney on February 21, 2024, 08:33:19 AMSure. All this does is ensure that any of the various die line names we use are set to overprint. We don't use XMF to convert our colors to cmyk.
Thanks. Hopefully I can figure out the syntax to add our Keylines, we have years of history with this spot colour.
Quote from: DCurry on February 21, 2024, 08:43:34 AMNot used XMF, but in its color library where you define how to treat the color are there options like Transparent or Dieline? Prinergy and Prinect let you define that and it informs the rip how to handle it. Classifying as dieline means it always overprints, never plates, and allows colors underneath to trap to each other.
You'd think, but sadly only the not plating part.
I see there is a default action in XMF "Dieline remap and overprint", but no documentation or description.
Converting to CMYK using an action, makes keeping KEYLINE spot (and overprint) difficult, however when we converted using colour setting, it was converting 100K black to 4 colour black when trapping over a (converted) spot colour.
When I was working, I created a spot color called, "Dieline," (100M) and I would set it to overprint manually in ID or Illy. When RIPping in Rampage/Prinergy, I selected it also to overprint (when Rampage existed). When proofing in EFIColor/FieryXF I would choose it to print. When plating, I did not select it as a plate to print. Worked for me.
Not sure how this translates over to XMF.
That works, too, just a lot of extra steps to remember every time which means opportunities for mistakes. For me, the advantage of defining special colors in the rip is that you only have to define the color in InDesign as a spot and be sure it is named correctly - nothing else matters. And configure your rip so it by default checks the custom library first when it is handling spot colors. The properties defined in the rip will override any settings you may have applied or not applied in the source file.
I make sure in the rip I define all the possible ways a die color might be named - DIE, die, Die, Dieline, DIELINE, dieline, etc. You can also add variations for Fold, Perf, whatever you need.
XMF is supposed to do exactly that, we've always had our Dielines (and all the possible variations that people use) set to Overprint on the Plate but Knockout in the Proofs so they'll show up easily on Epsons. Lately though, they' haven't been honoring those settings. Gotta put a call in to Support, just haven't had a chance.
That Preflight Action is a good idea though, might employ that in the mean time.
Hey that sound like a good feature overprint on plate and knockout on the proof!
I never knew it could do that!
Quote from: Tracy on February 23, 2024, 08:10:32 AMHey that sound like a good feature overprint on plate and knockout on the proof!
I never knew it could do that!
Just keep in mind, Black should ALWAYS overprint. Unless you're sending to a 2-color press with a common blanket. Like a Heidelberg Quickmaster POS.
Quote from: DigiCorn on February 27, 2024, 07:49:04 PMQuote from: Tracy on February 23, 2024, 08:10:32 AMHey that sound like a good feature overprint on plate and knockout on the proof!
I never knew it could do that!
Just keep in mind, Black should ALWAYS overprint. Unless the printer is a flog and you want to piss him off.
Fixed it for you
First time I've ever seen that word; flog. I like it. Don't know what it means, but waiting to break it out in conversation to tell someone to flog off.
- to beat with a whip, stick, etc., especially as punishment; [color=var(--dictionaryblue)]whip (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/whip)[/url]; [color=var(--dictionaryblue)]scourge[/color] (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/scourge).[/font][/size][/color]
Yup, sounds like my job on a daily basis.
I've always liked the slang phrase: to "throw you a beating"
QuoteYou should always beat someone with a sack of Valencia Oranges. It won't leave a mark, but it'll let 'em know who's boss.
~ Bing Crosby
That reminds me of a great scene in The Grifters with Anjelica Houston and Pat Hingle.
see also: Bobo's oranges
Quote from: DigiCorn on March 05, 2024, 03:34:02 PMFirst time I've ever seen that word; flog. I like it. Don't know what it means, but waiting to break it out in conversation to tell someone to flog off.
That context works quite well.
One can also flog themselves ie: spank the monkey, run one through the knuckles etc.
I was using it in the context that the person was being compared to the end product of the process of having a flog.
Quote from: madbugger on March 06, 2024, 09:32:35 PMQuote from: DigiCorn on March 05, 2024, 03:34:02 PMFirst time I've ever seen that word; flog. I like it. Don't know what it means, but waiting to break it out in conversation to tell someone to flog off.
That context works quite well.
One can also flog themselves ie: spank the monkey, run one through the knuckles etc.
The Five Knuckle Shuffle
Shaking hands with Uncle Dick
Lone Rangering
Manual Override
Celebrating Palm Sunday
Meeting the milkman
Burping the worm
Gherkin' jerkin'
Auditioning hand puppets
Battling the purple helmeted yogurt slinger
Manual override - :lmao:
A date with the palm sisters?
Tapping little Johnny behind the ear?
Pocket pool
-redacted-
Hhahahaa ;D
Taming the one eyed wonder worm
you guys are not in the Bar! your in XMF
:offtopic: :offtopic:
Yeah! Ya wankers!
Quote from: Tracy on March 08, 2024, 11:41:24 AMyou guys are not in the Bar! your in XMF
:offtopic: :offtopic:
Go get em Tracy! :punchy:
Yes, we have been drifting off in topic to "crotch related" jokes. Not fair with a lady present. I abstain from any further locker room banter.
Tune in next week for Garage Talk when we will be discussing disgusting.
Oh No! <—————- (Mr. Bill)
Quote from: born2print on March 08, 2024, 04:27:41 PMTune in next week for Garage Talk when we will be discussing disgusting.
Is that an
Eminem reference?
A tisket, a tasket, I'll go tit-for-tat wit' (https://genius.com/901714/Eminem-without-me/A-tisket-a-tasket-ill-go-tit-for-tat-wit)
Anybody who's talkin', "This shit, that shit" (https://genius.com/901714/Eminem-without-me/A-tisket-a-tasket-ill-go-tit-for-tat-wit)
Chris Kirkpatrick, you can get your ass kicked (https://genius.com/30803/Eminem-without-me/Chris-kirkpatrick-you-can-get-your-ass-kicked)
Worse than them little Limp Bizkit bastards (https://genius.com/270331/Eminem-without-me/Worse-than-them-little-limp-bizkit-bastards)
And Moby? You can get stomped by Obie (https://genius.com/30799/Eminem-without-me/And-moby-you-can-get-stomped-by-obie)
You thirty-six-year-old bald-headed fag, blow me (https://genius.com/30799/Eminem-without-me/And-moby-you-can-get-stomped-by-obie)
You don't know me, you're too old, let go (https://genius.com/30799/Eminem-without-me/And-moby-you-can-get-stomped-by-obie)
It's over, nobody listens to techno (https://genius.com/25708/Eminem-without-me/Its-over-nobody-listens-to-techno)
Now, let's go, just give me the signal (https://genius.com/30801/Eminem-without-me/Now-lets-go-just-give-me-the-signal)
I'll be there with a whole list full of new insults (https://genius.com/215907/Eminem-without-me/Ill-be-there-with-a-whole-list-full-of-new-insults)
I've been dope, suspenseful with a pencil (https://genius.com/28604/Eminem-without-me/Ive-been-dope-suspenseful-with-a-pencil)
Ever since Prince turned himself into a symbol (https://genius.com/28604/Eminem-without-me/Ive-been-dope-suspenseful-with-a-pencil)
But, sometimes, the shit just seems (https://genius.com/14698938/Eminem-without-me/But-sometimes-the-shit-just-seems)
Everybody only wants to discuss me (https://genius.com/14698938/Eminem-without-me/But-sometimes-the-shit-just-seems)So this must mean I'm disgusting (https://genius.com/839251/Eminem-without-me/So-this-must-mean-im-disgusting)
But it's just me, I'm just obscene (Yeah)Though I'm not the first king of controversy (https://genius.com/28605/Eminem-without-me/Though-im-not-the-first-king-of-controversy)
I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley (https://genius.com/25709/Eminem-without-me/I-am-the-worst-thing-since-elvis-presley)
To do Black music so selfishly (https://genius.com/25709/Eminem-without-me/I-am-the-worst-thing-since-elvis-presley)
And use it to get myself wealthy (Hey!) (https://genius.com/25709/Eminem-without-me/I-am-the-worst-thing-since-elvis-presley)
There's a concept that works (https://genius.com/839261/Eminem-without-me/Theres-a-concept-that-works)
Twenty million other white rappers emerge (https://genius.com/839261/Eminem-without-me/Theres-a-concept-that-works)
But no matter how many fish in the sea (https://genius.com/29126264/Eminem-without-me/But-no-matter-how-many-fish-in-the-sea)
It'd be so empty without me (https://genius.com/29126264/Eminem-without-me/But-no-matter-how-many-fish-in-the-sea)
Quote from: DigiCorn on February 27, 2024, 07:49:04 PMQuote from: Tracy on February 23, 2024, 08:10:32 AMHey that sound like a good feature overprint on plate and knockout on the proof!
I never knew it could do that!
Just keep in mind, Black should ALWAYS overprint. Unless you're sending to a 2-color press with a common blanket. Like a Heidelberg Quickmaster POS.
Yep, used to work with a QM, but we also force knockout black when printing spot colours on plasticised stock (like Polyart) because it does not absord the ink, and set-off becomes a problem.
There is only so much spray powder you can use
I don't always overprint Black
Neither do I. Sometimes there's something running under it that might look weird. Usually in those cases I'll use a rich black but it's not always necessary.
I'm mindful to ko and trap if a black element laps only partially onto another... like a black bar partially atop a yellow box.
Agreed, I don't always overprint black. Things like news webs don't run a very dense black and looks terrible to overprint certain things.
I overprint 100K black rules, type less than 18 pt generally. Anything where trapping will not work better thab overprint black. Sometimes I have to decide how something will trap/overprint out of the ordinary.
I have the same issue with dies, but I do it upfront and have a folder of saved dies that overprint. The further upfront I can stop an issue the better. Sometimes it takes work.
If the type is bigger than 18 pt and the job is 4-color, depending on the image or color underneath the type I would convert the color of that type to rich black.