)&$#@^*&* Collation Marks!!!

[Joe]

HELP!

This should be an easy one but I'm stumped.

Bindery wants collation marks on sigs for perfect bound book. I'm try a smartmark. No problem but...we have templates built that are two up so it delivers off of the press as, for example, 2 separate 16 page sigs but the sigs are identical. The top two rows of the plate have pages 1 thru 16 (front and back) and the bottom two rows of the plate have the exact same pages just duplicated from the top. Preps, and it states so in the manual, places the collation mark in the grindoff between the low folio and the high folio but on our 2 up templates it only places it between 1 and 16 on the bottom half of the plate and does not put it between 1 and 16 on the top half of the plate. As a test I changed the page numbers on the bottom half from 1 and 16 to 101 and 116 and the collation mark disappeared from the template. I would have thought it would have jumped up to the 1 and 16 on the top half of the plate but nooooooo...it vanished completely. So the question is...how do I make it show up on both sigs of a 2 up template?

[LoganBlade]

for simplelist it is a k/k job.

your perfecting.???

then make it a  tunmble job but perfecting then the marks will be correct??


instead of having a front 2 up on the sheet backed up by the back 2 up have teh front and back sheets on the front of form and teh font and back on the back.

maybe bindery won't like but it might work. I use Hiedlebergs signa for impo and not familiar with preps

[Joe]

Runs on the web press.

I tried changing the job from sheetwise to perfecting but the page numbers were then out of order for the press.

[tapdn]

no expert here, tho I do use Preps 5, but could it have something to do with setting the second 16 page up as independent pages?

[Joe]

Do you mean I should or did I? If the latter, no the 2nd one is not set up as independent pages.

[tapdn]

should maybe try using independent pages on second.

[LoganBlade]

add the second manually?

I undestand the web thing now didn't read carfully enough

[Joe]

add the second manually?

Yeah, I can't figure out a way to do that. It's programmed into Preps to put the collation mark in the grindoff between the low and high folio and so far I have not been able to trick it into placing it anywhere else. It's not a mark that you can change the coordinates of where to place it on the plate.

[Joe]

should maybe try using independent pages on second.

I'll try it when I get to work.

[Ear]

Just had this come up Joe. I have a double paralell, off our Hantscho that is 32 pages per form each yielding 2, 16 pg forms with collation marks. I did it by using static marks, adding Collation mark A to pg 1 and Collation mark B to the page 17 position (pg 1 of the second 16 on the form. the trick is getting them to stagger just right. It's not perfect but it's as close as I could get it. Here's the template.

 

[Joe]

Just had this come up Joe. I have a double paralell, off our Hantscho that is 32 pages per form each yielding 2, 16 pg forms with collation marks. I did it by using static marks, adding Collation mark A to pg 1 and Collation mark B to the page 17 position (pg 1 of the second 16 on the form. the trick is getting them to stagger just right. It's not perfect but it's as close as I could get it. Here's the template.

Ahhhh crap, I'd rather kiss a skunk than use a static mark. I was afraid someone would tell me this is the way I have to do it. :angry: I thought they were smartmarks because they were smart!!!??? So many templates. So little time to place static marks. Looks like a fun time at ye ol' sweat shop tonight.

PS: BTW, thanks for the info and template.

[Ear]

Just had this come up Joe. I have a double paralell, off our Hantscho that is 32 pages per form each yielding 2, 16 pg forms with collation marks. I did it by using static marks, adding Collation mark A to pg 1 and Collation mark B to the page 17 position (pg 1 of the second 16 on the form. the trick is getting them to stagger just right. It's not perfect but it's as close as I could get it. Here's the template.

Ahhhh crap, I'd rather kiss a skunk than use a static mark. I was afraid someone would tell me this is the way I have to do it. :angry: I thought they were smartmarks because they were smart!!!??? So many templates. So little time to place static marks. Looks like a fun time at ye ol' sweat shop tonight.

Static marks are still smart in some respects. That particular job was multiple sigs, I made the collation mark 7 inches with a .25 step distance and when I go to my impo and add the sig multiple times, the mark knows to put A on sig 1, B on sig 2, etc... just like it knows that it needs to change pg 1 to pg 33 on sig 2. That part of it is still "smart".

[tapdn]

good thinking Earendil.
Today I learned something new.

[Joe]

Static marks are still smart in some respects. That particular job was multiple sigs, I made the collation mark 7 inches with a .25 step distance and when I go to my impo and add the sig multiple times, the mark knows to put A on sig 1, B on sig 2, etc... just like it knows that it needs to change pg 1 to pg 33 on sig 2. That part of it is still "smart".

Okay, that doesn't sound too bad. I need the collation mark on the two up sig to be in the exact same spot though. I don't want it stepped over on the 2nd one from the first. Will that work?

[Ear]

Should work just fine, you may have to mess with the position a little but I think you can get it to work like that. If anything, I was having trouble getting them to stagger. You just have to look at the position of each traveling collation mark in relation to the page it is attached to. Might take a little R&D but it should work. I'll have a little more time to mess with it after lunch if you are still having trouble.

Thank The Lord for version 5.x! I remember jumping through serious hoops in the days of Preps 4 to do tricky things with collation marks.