Preps 6 vs Metrix

[EmptyWords]

We have been looking at upgrading our impo software, currently looking at Metrix vs upgrading our Preps to v.6, does anybody have experience in both, like coming from a Metrix system to the new Preps 6 software??? Which does better/quicker in flat/sig production?? Preps seems to have taken alot of ideas from the Metrix side for the new version they have.

Also, anybody who has upgraded from Preps 5x to 6, how did the transition go, and did you have any problems training, production issues, etc.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated, we are just trying to figure out which one will be less painful and cause the least downtime, since there is really only two of us doing 4 different job positions and a lot of presses to feed. Thanks........

EW

[Joe]

I have Preps 6 but have not started using it in production. There are still some bugs. I was having problems with it crashing at output if the impo had a partial web. They fixed that in 6.0.1 but there are still issues they are working on with partial webs concerning page numbering. Also I understand there are still some bugs if you need to use the multi-section feature. It's a complete different product than Preps 5 so I'm sure there will be some getting used to the newer version but probably no more than learning a new product. I have never used Metrix myself so that is just a guess.

[frailer]

One of our vendor techs is doing Metrix training. It's pretty powerful, so we're told. Incorporates all sorts of MIS finctions, which is where it's headed, I guess. JDF 'flow and all.
I believe the guy who was the guru behind PREPS, when it was under ScenicSoft, is the architect of Metrix. Guessing he's out from under restriction now. Those sort of guys probably code in their sleep. Lives about an hour south of here...Wollongong way. Ocean view, I bet.

[David]

We have Metrix here, and it is "Preps" like, but with some other functionality. Like Frailer said, it's JDF out and all. It works with our MIS  system Prisim, estimates are imported into Metrix and the press layout is automatically generated, it then can be automatically manipulated to find the "best" utilization of the paper.

As far as which is better, tough call. Depends on what you need to do. If you need nested packaging impos, metrix won't do that, it only works with squares. So, you'll be looking at "how can we do this" type of workflow.
Preps on the other hand, I haven't used since V3 or 4, can't remember which.
We currently use Esko Suite 7, which can impo virtually everything. Looking into Prinergy, seeing what they have to offer.

[DigiCorn]

I never made the upgrade to Preps 6 from 5 for these reasons:

1) As a Rampage user, Preps 6 eliminates the use of fpos, so now you have to impose a pdf file directly.

2) Hopefully the pdf is trapped, otherwise you have to trap your impo which if something traps wrong makes a whole world of hurt for you. The alternative is to manually hand trap the file, or spend even more $$$ for pdf trapping software, which now eliminates part of the reason why you bought Rampage in the first place (trapping and fpo linking).

3) If you want to change a page later, you have to re-impo the whole pdf, or try to swap out only the affected page, both of which could lead to other errors.

4) pdfs with embedded fonts and images take up more physical hard drive space than ole/fpos, as do the resulting impositions, so I hope you have a large server and don't mind writing extra media, or taking extra time for writing off-site backups.

5) Imposing a pdf is s-l-o-w-e-r-!

6) I think it's a total slap-in-the-face by Kodak to Rampage users, as it is totally geared towards Prinergy now, thus alienating previous users of other systems. They say they are working with Rampage for solutions, but if they really cared to begin with, they wouldn't be working backwards now.

7) They still haven't fixed the dongle driver issue for OS 10.5.8 Leopard on Mac, and I have been pushing this for months now.

We are now looking at making the move the Metrix as well.

[Joe]

I can see why non-prinergy users are not happy with Preps 6 with them removing using FPO's. I have to wonder about the decision making process at Kodak. Anyone using FPO's will either have to stick with 5.3 or look elsewhere. And I have to believe that is a big chunk of their current customers.

[Farabomb]

With the plate issue we're having, them raising the cost of the service contract and switching our rebate deal to something that saves us nothing we're about to show them the door.

[macphenom]

Actually you don't have to impose pdfs in preps 6 with Rampage. Rampage has the ability to create pdf fpo's. It works just the same as eps fpo's.

[DigiCorn]

Still, saving an embedded pdf + native files = more disk space than native files + ole/opi/fpos in eps format, plus the time to create a pdf is longer than exporting to eps. If you're constantly doing postcards or business cards, probably not a big deal, but lately we've been doing a LOT of 300+ page perfect bound books with full color illustrations so the time constraint is a huge factor. And that's if you've got all your $h!+ dialed in; some people still have post script problems with pdf and Preps, usually resulting in font errors.

Clearly Kodak's motivation here is to drive Prinergy sales. They're hoping people will switch over. In all honesty, we ran Kodak thermal plates and chemistry when I first started at this company (2+ years ago) and their prices were higher than Agfa, so we switched. My old shop was also an Agfa shop, but we were IR there. We briefly tried to switch to a cheaper Kodak polymer plate, but the results were ridiculously inconsistent. You could plate a job, and then replate it 5 minutes later, put a dot reader on a solid screen, and get two different values. It was miserable. We ended up going back to Agfa after a month; the cost of replating everything was more than doing it right the first time with Agfa. I can't recommend Kodak for anything.

Yay Rampage! Boo Kodak!

[determined]

with metrix, we have to make fpos of our pdfs, then "stitch" the fpos together to impose a book. It then gets "assigned" into the imposition as 1 piece. Can't you do the same with Preps?

[EmptyWords]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

We really don't do nested jobs in Preps or would do them in Metrix if we get it, we use PowerLayout/PowerStepper for any packaging or nesting job work. We would primarily be doing Books, Catalogs, Brochures, etc. in Metrix/Preps, also ganging work.

Davo did the Preps work at ScenicSoft, he is w/ the Metrix crew, but the mastermind behind the Metrix software is Rohan Holt, the one who created UpFront for Creo/Kodak.

Joe, seems you always have issues w/ new software pertaining to your web presses. I originally wanted our company to get a web press in, now I am glad we didn't, since most problems I hear about w/ workflows/impo software stem from companies outputting webs, sorry for the glad it's you not me comment.

We don't use fpo's to run through our workflows, it has been pdf in/pdf out for quite a few years now, we preflight & trap the single one up, then impo the one up to what ever press layout we need. As far as size and speed, we have pretty huge capacity servers here, around 3+TB online at all times, the production servers are pretty fast too, the workflow servers hardly ever get maxed out w/ horsepower, the only time we really see a slow down is when we trap really complex files, we use 4-stage vector trapping so it can slow down from time to time. The backups, we use LTO changers on rotational tape sets, since I have had to take over the IT after our last house clearing, I streamline everything I could to make things easy as possible.

I hear many non-Prinergy users complaining about Kodak shifting from the open, any workflow to a more Prinergy centric Preps and I do see it too, that is also one of the things pushing us to look at other options.

I still have a little while before we make the decision, so have have been working w/ a new demo of Preps 6 I just got from Kodak, some of the things make sense others just leave me confused as to why they did it, it's a totally different beast, that is for sure and one more thing I have to figure out by the seat of my pants.

EW

[Joe]

Joe, seems you always have issues w/ new software pertaining to your web presses. I originally wanted our company to get a web press in, now I am glad we didn't, since most problems I hear about w/ workflows/impo software stem from companies outputting webs, sorry for the glad it's you not me comment.

Most of our problems is that we have 4 of them and none of them are the same. And our head press guy is always changing stuff on them. Other than that they are great. :tongue:

[determined]

We have Metrix here, and it is "Preps" like, but with some other functionality. Like Frailer said, it's JDF out and all. It works with our MIS  system Prisim, estimates are imported into Metrix and the press layout is automatically generated, it then can be automatically manipulated to find the "best" utilization of the paper.

As far as which is better, tough call. Depends on what you need to do. If you need nested packaging impos, metrix won't do that, it only works with squares. So, you'll be looking at "how can we do this" type of workflow.
Preps on the other hand, I haven't used since V3 or 4, can't remember which.
We currently use Esko Suite 7, which can impo virtually everything. Looking into Prinergy, seeing what they have to offer.

Oh btw, I have gotten nested stuff to work in metrix....(pocket folder dies, to be exact)...apparently, it won't "block" out the one behind it as long as you use the hi res pdf (not the fpo)

[David]

Oh btw, I have gotten nested stuff to work in metrix....(pocket folder dies, to be exact)...apparently, it won't "block" out the one behind it as long as you use the hi res pdf (not the fpo)

yeah, it can be done, you just have to be "creative" to get it to work right, that's why I hear all the time:
CSR:  Metrix is broke, it won't do my layout...
me: what are you doing?
CSR: trying to build this 4 up pocket folder with blah blah blah...
me: give it up, I don't have the time it takes to teach you how to use your brain, we'll do it in Esko.


LOL

[johnny_jay]

We switched from Rampage to Prinergy last year so my memory is fuzzy but I thought you could save an fpo as either a pdf or an eps. Will the fpo pdf not work in Rampage/Preps6?