The resourceful Danes running this site have put a lot of effort into the English-language site lately. They cover a lot of ground, including TVs and new advances in displays of all types.
Am Stickying it for now, at least. May relegate it later to general threads.
FlatpanelsHD (http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1231352728)
And a reminder that anyone having to look at displays for prepress, and on a 'budget', have a look at the DELL 2209WA.
Flatpanels just did a review of it. Great bang for buck.
DELL 2209WA review (http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248173915)
Seems we can add this one to the list of affordable, (not EIZO), flat-panels which would be suitable for prepress.
DELL U2410 (http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor-dell-u2410?c=au&l=en&s=dhs&cs=audhs1)
These are new on the market AFAIK, and have an H-IPS panel inside, as distinct from an S-IPS. 12 bit color, up from 8. This mid-section of the market is shifting rapidly, and I'm keeping an eye on it. They seem to have dropped the retail price by $100 in the past week. :huh:
Shall flag any review by the Danes. Price is Aussie $$.
These are not to be confused with the G2410, a bog-standard TN. Very ordinary.
Note also that these are 16:10 ratio; generous in the vertical axis. Not like the skinnier, (vertically), 24"ers.
Received a DELL 2209WA this afternoon to run with our Mini, mainly as the Black Magic server, but also to use with XMF workflow client running the imposition. There seems to be a marked difference between the S-IPS panels, and the e-IPS that the 2209WA uses. Still the obvious 8-bit color, and the all-round great viewing angles; but they've shaken off the indigo-hue in the black that could be seen from most angles beyond 30˚ or so on the S-IPS panels. Blacks also deeper.
A great display, especially for the price; in this case AU$210 from Dell Outlet.
The U2410 is up on review now.
U2410 (http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1259151406)
Amongst other things, 1.07 billion colours. Think permutations/combinations back in high school maths, when comparing the available colours on 6, 8, 12 bit colour. It's not a straight curve progression.
Flatpanels have basically given it 5 Star rating. AU$799 here. On Outlet, if you were to wait'n'watch, prolly about $500. For what it is, amazing value.
$499.99 HERE (http://www.blazintech.net/computer-hardware/monitors/dell-ultrasharp-u2410-24-inch-widescreen-monitor/prod_35901.html?gclid=CMe2sIjwq54CFRSdnAodbSI6Iw)
Can't justify 500 bucks for a monitor personally though. I almost bought an Acer 22" for $119.00 but missed it by an eyelash.
Wow, a good price. Strange that there are some 'resellers' out there. Thought DELL pretty much did the direct sale thing.
No, can't justify it for home either. But they'd make a damn good pp display, for the price.
Add this one to the affordable 8-bit color/IPS list.
NEC231WMi (http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1265977876)
Reviews of the new 'affordable' In Plane Switching (IPS) displays from DELL. This web site is a gem for keeping up with all display tech., including TVs.
If you don't want to wade through the tech detail, the conclusions are always worthwhile.
DELL U2311H (http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1275291737) Showing as $299 on US Dell site. That is a very good price for an IPS panel. Holds up very well on their test. Chalk and cheese to staring at a TN panel.
For some reason, DELL also have other major quality brands purchasable on their site. Curious. But this one is similarly priced, and would also be a superior display, especially for the price. NEC EA231WMi (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&sku=A2989270) See above post.
This one's worth a look. OLED technology.
OLED (http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1289487180&newsletter)
The OLED looks like pretty low resolution.
I am replacing all my MAC monitor with these.
--- http://www.cinemaview.com/product/cinemaview-24-display (http://www.cinemaview.com/product/cinemaview-24-display) ---
Picked up, 3 so far, and they are wonderful.
Using the first 2 for a month now.
Will be profiling the group with the EYEone on monday..
MSD
OLED is in it's early-launch phase. They will resolve stuff like that, at the same time that the price is dropping; as always with new tech.
What bothers me about Apple is their being coy about the specs when it suits them. F'rinstance, they are up-front about the display in the 27" Imac, (S-IPS, LCD/LED). A rare moment of transparency. Here they're not.
I assume the 24" there is IPS of some sort. For a 24", the pixel-pitch is a bit high for my liking, for that size. When I return from the Dr. for antibiotic coverage for a fcuking tick bite (Australia :rolleyes: ), I'd be interested to see what's out there in the $400 range/24", that would not have the glossy surface. Interesting though.
The glossy surface seems, to me, to be no issue ...
if your prepress area is dark and neutral - as it should be.
MSD
QuoteMatte, NOT GLOSS! Good quality LCD screens must have a matte surface, not a shiny, reflective gloss coating. Gloss is bad in every way - it increases contrast (which we don't want, see above) - and it dramatically increases the reflectively characteristics of the screen, which is again very bad. High quality screens all have very matte surfaces that minimise reflections and allow for a very pleasing, natural display. Very high quality screens have lens grade coatings on them for extremely high quality display, and this gives images on these screens a wonderfully natural, three dimensional quality.
From Jeremy Daalder's info sheet on high-qual display criteria.
displays for imaging work (http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/120/Monitors+For+High+Quality+Imaging+Work)
OK, entry level's are at $1000, but doesn't change the facts of life. Apple don't trust the average punter not to damage display surfaces. The only reason I can think of, anyway. Hence the shiny stuff. ACDs had matte surfaces, but for the price, why would you bother when you could go entry NEC or EIZO.
We were forced to go 27" iMac. OK there are some great things about it, but shiny is not one. I have a DELL 2009WA, (S-IPS, and for the price very good), next to it on our Black Magic Mini. No reflections off that. :cheesy:
Nothing much is 'as it should be' where we are... :laugh:
QuoteExtensive Calibration Controls - Good monitors must have extensive controls for adjusting their picture to appropriate targets. Most importantly is a brightness control that can drop a monitor's display down to a reasonable level to simulate paper - this is where many consumer monitors fail absolutely. For example, the current iMac 24" screen has a minimum brightness of 250 cd/m2 (and out of the box they are a truly retina destroying 400 cd/m2!). This is ridiculous and a huge fundamental failing for image makers - an approximate recommendation for most working environments for print production work, would be brightness of around 90 to 110 cd/m2. This means the iMac is, at best, two and a half times brighter than it should be to simulate paper - and there's no physical control to adjust this. With a 24" iMac you will forever find your prints seem darker than your screen - and there is nothing you can do to fix this (except buy a much better external screen - thankfully the iMac has video output port!).
Interesting. Where I work if a monitor costs more than $139 these days it's rejected in short order. Doesn't matter if it's glossy or matte. Whatever comes in under $139 is what we get. Luckily for me, in commercial prepress, we all have 21.5" glossy iMacs. If I went in and asked for a monitor like the ones you all are discussing I'd be thrown out of the office. :sad:
Yeah, I know, everything's relative. I've stopped dreaming about $1000 displays now. But I've seen them in operation, and know what they can do.
Yes, I consider myself lucky to have what we have. :lipsrsealed:
DCS might like to tell why he likes his EIZO, and how different his images look compared to the 27" iMac. :cheesy: I'll at least hook up my old DELL 2007FP (S-IPS) to the iMac, as they have built in DVI to Mini-DVI connection on the iMac. Once I resolve the transition remnants/backup conundrum.
Quote from: frailer on November 14, 2010, 03:06:06 AMYeah, I know, everything's relative. I've stopped dreaming about $1000 displays now. But I've seen them in operation, and know what they can do.
Yes, I consider myself lucky to have what we have. :lipsrsealed:
DCS might like to tell why he likes his EIZO, and how different his images look compared to the 27" iMac. :cheesy: I'll at least hook up my old DELL 2007FP (S-IPS) to the iMac, as they have built in DVI to Mini-DVI connection on the iMac. Once I resolve the transition remnants/backup conundrum.
You can't buy a monitor today, consumer model anyway, that doesn't clip shadows and highlights. If you are a visual color corrector, this is a disaster. The Eizo not only does NOT do this, but displays color pretty accurate. No monitor is perfect, but the Eizo is the closest I have seen. Cost a pretty penny, too. You really get what you pay or.
for what it's worth I've been using a 27 inch iMac for about 2 months and I love it. The "gloss" issue doesn't even come into play here because there are no lights overhead in my work area, never get a glare. I've always preferred to work this way (in the dark)...must be all those years in the darkroom.
one thing is though, until you get used to it you just have to realize that everything looks a little "better" on this monitor than what it will print like. The color accuracy is very good however and you can hold an epson proof beside it and it's like 95% accurate most times which is good enough for this little print shop.
Thats my 2 cents.
Off topic, but don't those damn things get hot! You can see why they went LED, rather than CCRT backlight. Would have ended up with a mess of aluminium and plastic on the bench. :shocked:
That's not only the heat from the LCD but the computer as well so it seems hotter than normal for a regular monitor.
Quote from: Joe on November 16, 2010, 01:22:36 PMThat's not only the heat from the LCD but the computer as well so it seems hotter than normal for a regular monitor.
They get REALLY hot. I like the color, too... for pleasing adjustments, but it still clips shadows and highlights. Not accurate by any means.
Yes, I use mine as a hand warmer in the winter months. Nice and toasty.
Quote from: Joe on November 16, 2010, 01:22:36 PMThat's not only the heat from the LCD but the computer as well so it seems hotter than normal for a regular monitor.
Exactly. I reckon they did some slide rule calculations and decided that was the only way it wouldn't melt. LED just keeps it under melting point. :laugh: I still reckon computer-in-display is design over function, but to a ridiculous degree.
If you put your monitor within 2 feet of a roaring fire it will start to bow and melt.
Quote from: gnubler on November 17, 2010, 09:56:48 AMIf you put your monitor within 2 feet of a roaring fire it will start to bow and melt.
Thank you Professor Julius Sumner Miller.
Quote from: frailer on November 17, 2010, 12:38:33 PMQuote from: gnubler on November 17, 2010, 09:56:48 AMIf you put your monitor within 2 feet of a roaring fire it will start to bow and melt.
Thank you Professor Julius Sumner Miller.
See there? She forgot that damn sarcasm emoticon again.
do we need to put her on probation? :sarcasm:
Kill her. I get the rump-roast. (No sarcasm)
again?
you always get the best parts!
Quote from: david on November 17, 2010, 01:27:31 PMagain?
you always get the best parts!
It's in her will, Dave. Hand scratched in her own blood. I converted some files for her, she "felt" she owed me. Who am I to argue. I like meat.
Hey Frailer, I remember that guy (Professor Julius Sumner Miller.) he used to come on a Canadian show here called the "house of frightenstein". He was a real piece of work that guy....
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on November 17, 2010, 01:29:36 PMQuote from: david on November 17, 2010, 01:27:31 PMagain?
you always get the best parts!
It's in her will, Dave. Hand scratched in her own blood. I converted some files for her, she "felt" she owed me. Who am I to argue. I like meat.
lucky dog
Quote from: pspdfppdfx on November 17, 2010, 03:36:46 PMHey Frailer, I remember that guy (Professor Julius Sumner Miller.) he used to come on a Canadian show here called the "house of frightenstein". He was a real piece of work that guy....
He was amazing, for the '60s. An inspiration to a lot of Aussie kids, who would go into science and engineering as a result of his whacky enthusiasm.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From 1963 to 1986 he was the visiting lecturer for the Physics Department of the University of Sydney [1] and from 1965 to 1985, the US Air Force Academy.
A student of Albert Einstein, he was instantly recognizable by his casual hair and horn-rimmed spectacles.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Sumner_Miller)
He also used to do commercials for Cadbury's Dairy Milk Chocolate, here, on TV. In his Massachusetts drawl, he'd espouse the benefits of having a 'glass and a half of full cream milk in every block'. As kids grew up into adults, they'd still incant that as they cracked a block.... :laugh:
On his science TV show for kids, he'd do a lab experiment, and always ask..."Why is it so!?" :laugh:
<embed src="http://www.4shared.com/embed/61985564/46bfcb09" width="420" height="320" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" />
Just skimmed over the review on FlatPanels for the Dell U2312HM (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-2807&~ck=baynoteSearch&baynote_bnrank=9&baynote_irrank=0) eIPS panel. LED.
If you could do a look in every few days on Dell's Outlet, it'd be a damn good buy, home or work.