We have been having more and more issues with our platesetter and it is quite old. I may have convinved the boss that a new, used one might be a good idea. We have a guy that we buy a lot of equipment from that has a trendsetter. There is also a local guy that has a screen device. Both are about the same price and age. If you had the choice, what one would you go with?
I have limited experience with the trendsetter back when we were using it for proofing and it had issues. I'd have to assume it's more refined now but it is a Kodak device so money could have been not allocated to developing the device.
Screen is rebadged by everyone and their mother and is in a lot of shops. Everyone I talk to says that's the one to get, even salesmen.
Now, to the people in the trenches, what is the real story. I expect there to be minor issues with any device but if you had to choose, what one would you pick and why?
I expect I can have E Z High-tec service either one without issue but I expect I will be the one making the first fix attempt.
Our Trendsetters have served us very well, fwiw.
Not surprising. They are of the 2 main platesetters I see for sale. I just tend to see a lot more screen devices.
Again, I'm not for or against any either. I might be able to get a better deal on the trendsetter but I don't want to end up with some ancient, non used device like I have now.
Quote from: Farabomb on April 09, 2015, 10:57:32 AMNot surprising. They are of the 2 main platesetters I see for sale. I just tend to see a lot more screen devices.
Again, I'm not for or against any either. I might be able to get a better deal on the trendsetter but I don't want to end up with some ancient, non used device like I have now.
Trendesetters track hours (others likely do too) so you should absolutely know the "mileage" on your prospective device.
A slightly tired machine that can be easily serviced might be better than what I have now.
Our Trendsetter seems to be a work horse
We had the laser head replaced about 9 years ago.
Still going, I hope I'm not jinxing myself :laugh:
That is very costly to replace so like Born said
Get the milage on it.
maybe even a warranty on the laser head?
we have a Trendsetter, never has any issues.
Thanks for everyone's replies.
If they start dying tomorrow it's not my fault at all. :undecided:
(http://www.forestofhealing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Handey_WalkAMile.png)
I was talking about the trendsetters, not you guys. :hello:
I'd go with Screen, just because it's probably easier to get it serviced because it's rebadged under so many names. They are also great machines!
I've never used either for CTP but we had a Screen imagesetter and you couldn't break that thing with an A10 Warthog.
(Anyone tries to sell you a Luscher run away as fast as you can)
Our Fuji T9000 (rebadged Screen device) is 11 years old and has imaged over 200,000 - 29 inch & 40 inch plates. We've had service done, but nothing really major. Great work-horse machine.
I may have to use the A-10 analogy in my pitch.
I want a screen for the service and durability reasons. If I can get the trendsetter for below $20k that may sway me towards it but I'm really pushing for the screen.
Quote from: andyfest on April 09, 2015, 01:20:31 PMOur Fuji T9000 (rebadged Screen device) is 11 years old and has imaged over 200,000 - 29 inch & 40 inch plates. We've had service done, but nothing really major. Great work-horse machine.
I too have a T9000... same deal, the dang things are work-horses. We have to 5-bay auto-loader attachment and it just sits there, churning out plates all day, every day, with very few problems.
I'd love a autoloader, especially with these Azura TS plates but I know I won't be getting one.
I'd bet manual load with offline punch and they will wonder about the fingerprints and registration issues.
Iove the autoloader.
I'm also a fan of the Screen platesetters. I've run older Trendsetters and they were nice units, but the Screen machines are tanks.
I did like the galilelo with the autoloader but it was far from stable.
Right now I'm splitting my hatered between customers that think 4:59 is end of day and my fucking proofer that said 2 days till calibration and decides, nope 4:59:30 is when it needs to be calibrated.
Fucking twice. :strangle:
Hi,
We have worked with 2 Screen Platerites and changed after 10 years of operation by another 2 brand new Platerites. Seems to be more efficient than Trendsetter because their laser diodes and compact vacuum engine.
Platerites and Trendys are workhorses but take into account the availability of tech support and spare parts. If you think to work with only one ctp, you must to take this advice. There is no eternal ctp.
If ctps are used, just check dot consistence, sharp and hard, good register and no misterious noise when working. Clean and robust as the car of your dreams.
Hope this help.
Oh, rarely my own car is japanese too. Seems that I'm a japanese but Texas is over my head (from mexican border).
Sayonara amigos.
I Forget, Fuji plates also (and tacos, chile and guacamole).
Arigato.
Thanks for the advice Edgar.
I have 2 ECRM CAT88's here right now. One for parts and one that is our main one. We have been seeing lots of issues lately. I believe it is because of the lack of temperature regulation here or possibly just because they are old (2004) and capacitors might be drying up/failing. It seems whenever there is temperature extremes, hot or cold, we have major issues with lines on the plates. We have had this issue for years but with the new AGFA plates it seems to become worse. I have a small heater pointed at the CAT whenever it's off to keep the temp somewhat stable. We also are having issues with the console on the press. The boss thinks it's unrelated but I have a feeling it's not helping.
I totally agree about Fuji plates but AGFA has cut our plate and chem cost in half.
I just want a stable, repairable platesetter so I don't have to worry and keep the pressmen happy.
Quote from: Farabomb on April 10, 2015, 07:19:10 AMThanks for the advice Edgar.
I have 2 ECRM CAT88's here right now. One for parts and one that is our main one. We have been seeing lots of issues lately. I believe it is because of the lack of temperature regulation here or possibly just because they are old (2004) and capacitors might be drying up/failing. It seems whenever there is temperature extremes, hot or cold, we have major issues with lines on the plates. We have had this issue for years but with the new AGFA plates it seems to become worse. I have a small heater pointed at the CAT whenever it's off to keep the temp somewhat stable. We also are having issues with the console on the press. The boss thinks it's unrelated but I have a feeling it's not helping.
I totally agree about Fuji plates but AGFA has cut our plate and chem cost in half.
I just want a stable, repairable platesetter so I don't have to worry and keep the pressmen happy.
Keep in mind that the Screen platesetters (at least the Fuji-badged ones) have a temperature window that must be maintained. The machine will give you a warning if the ambient temp is affecting the laser head. Too hot or too cold and it will ask for an ambient temperature adjustment before it will image. We try to keep the temp around 70°F plus or minus a couple of degrees. Also, high humidity can cause the dew sensors to alarm and prevent imaging as well. We try to keep humidity below 50% using the air conditioning and dehumidifiers if necessary. Not sure if these environmental issues affect the Trendsetter.
You may have just proved my point. The temp swing here is pretty severe. 53 at night and 68 ish during the day. Most times I wear a hat and jacket the whole day, it's cold in here. I can easily see how that can affect a thermal plate system.
You would be ok running at 68, but not in the 50's and low 60's - the machine would just stop and ask you to raise the temp to an acceptable level. A low of 18C (64F) and a high of 28C (82F) will trigger an error alarm about the temp of the environment and will not allow the machine to image anything.
I kinda wish the CAT had that. Would prove my point about it being freezing in here. Low 60's in the winter and I don't think it gets to 84 in here but it's hot as hell.
Farabomb,
Look for a used Supraetter 105 or 106, it was designed to run in adverse environments. It has a very wide operating range of 62.6 to 86. Part of this is attributed to having temperature compensation where the plates are always imaged at the same temperature regardless of the ambiant temperature as long as it is within the operating range. This also insures a plate remake will register as long as the plates were imaged with in the operating range. This, along with the most modern laser design, provide the widest industry operating range. This will not keep you warm but I might be able to send you a Heidelberg jacket.
https://www.heidelberg.com/us/en/products/prepress/computer_to_plate/suprasetter_a106_106__106_uv/suprasetter_a106_106_106_uv.jsp
Good luck!
Mark
Thanks for that info. I will be looking into them. As we are not down we can take our time looking and if we can find one used in the same range as the others, the wider temperature window would be a bonus.
Is it a bespoke design or is it a modified device that shares parts with other devices?
Hi Farabomb,
The Suprasetter is designed and manufactured by Heidelberg in Weisloch, Germany. It is a complete family from a 20" CtP up to a 73" CtP. There are thousands of Suprasetters installed and we do occasionally offer used ones as well as I see dealers offering used. Please let me know if you have any other questions or if I can help. Thanks.
Best,
Mark
Quote from: Marktonk on April 14, 2015, 03:55:07 PMHi Farabomb,
The Suprasetter is designed and manufactured by Heidelberg in Weisloch, Germany. It is a complete family from a 20" CtP up to a 73" CtP. There are thousands of Suprasetters installed and we do occasionally offer used ones as well as I see dealers offering used. Please let me know if you have any other questions or if I can help. Thanks.
Best,
Mark
Hey Mark, this is a bit off topic but did you happen to be an instructor for the Tango and Topaz drum scanners & software down in Long Beach back in the late 90's?
I'm thinking the trendsetters are either at or very close to end of life status?
You may me correct. The one we were looking at turned out to be older than the CAT 88 we have. The good thing is that the boss is ok with entertaining the thought of a new, used machine rather than just saying no as he did in the past.
Quote from: gig0 on April 17, 2015, 03:01:46 PMQuote from: Marktonk on April 14, 2015, 03:55:07 PMHi Farabomb,
The Suprasetter is designed and manufactured by Heidelberg in Weisloch, Germany. It is a complete family from a 20" CtP up to a 73" CtP. There are thousands of Suprasetters installed and we do occasionally offer used ones as well as I see dealers offering used. Please let me know if you have any other questions or if I can help. Thanks.
Best,
Mark
Hey Mark, this is a bit off topic but did you happen to be an instructor for the Tango and Topaz drum scanners & software down in Long Beach back in the late 90's?
Hi gig0,
I do have a scanner background going back to Hell prior to Linotype Hell but was off scanners when the Tango and Topaz were launched. In the 90's, I ran the Linotype-Hell Demo Center in Cypress, Ca until they shut it down. I then moved into an Implementation Specialist position where I reviewed production needs and then designed a workflow to go with it. I did that until 2000, then I moved to Heidelberg's headquarters into Product Management for CtP and Proofing. Back to California in 2009 for Sales. Funny, this is the third time I have lived in California.....do not plan on leaving it again:). There is a very good chance that we did meet in the 90's here. Where were you working at then?
Best,
Mark
I was working at Jano Graphics in Ventura. Me and and another person went down to Long Beach for a week to learn the scanners and LinoColor sofware. Some of the best education I still carry with me to this day. Your name just seems vaguely familiar.