Magnus 800 plate scratches

[born2print]

Processless Fuji plates.
Pressroom says "80% of plates are scratched"
Plant president and I audited a dozen freshly imaged plates that had not yet gone to pressroom and found basically 1 scratch.
Anyway, I am sick of it and looking for new ideas, is it the machine?
Could be, but it just got all the love from a Kodak tech last week, not to mention there's so few touches! No turner or processor!
Is it rough handling?
Seems like it but unlikely. Our staff is all aged and used to proper handling back to film days.
Plates are jacketed with slip sheets, taped at the corner in 4s more or less.
The jacket is corrugated, thick, can stand vertically.
Any input is appreciated

[David]

back in the day, we had a batch of Kodak plates that were scratched from the manufacturer. 

Have you looked at the plates before imaging and then after?
Have you watched the pressroom handle the plates and mount them on the press?
Is it just one press?


80% is a pretty high number, do you have press sheets that show the scratches?

[scottrsimons]

We are not running Fuji, but Kodak. And had some issues when we first switched. We are the same with everyone knowing how to handle the plates correctly. We found that the processless plates are a little more sensitive. And we use auto loaders on the press, and those needed a good cleaning. But you may also need to have your laser power checked for your Magnus, the setting might be slightly off. Might need a fine adjustment for the plates.

[born2print]

Seems that when we audit new plates we don't see scratches but I think we should do it more / again.

Pressroom is adamant that it is not their handling, and they are credible, I have had pressmen ask for remakes because they ruined a plate plenty of times. It is not a certain press / operator / shift.

80% was deemed more emotion than fact. When we audited a dozen plates we found 1 scratch.
Yes there are sheets and plates both offered as evidence.

Thanks David, best theory so far is all of them... which is no theory at all of course.

[born2print]

We are not running Fuji, but Kodak. And had some issues when we first switched. We are the same with everyone knowing how to handle the plates correctly. We found that the processless plates are a little more sensitive. And we use auto loaders on the press, and those needed a good cleaning. But you may also need to have your laser power checked for your Magnus, the setting might be slightly off. Might need a fine adjustment for the plates.

Everyone agrees about the sensitivity.
I will pass press auto loader cleaning and laser power check up the chain. Thanks 

[Tracy]

Plates are the most sensitive coming out of the imagesetter, the processor use to take the emulsion off
so then the plate wasn't as sensitive. now it has to travel before taking the emulsion off.
Hopefully they come out with a solution soon.

[born2print]

Right, my memory tells me that scratches weren't as common with processed plates.

[DigiCorn]

Fuck Kodak.

We were a Heidelberg shop back in the day, and then they hired me. I found about 800 issues with front end - it was almost 20 years ago; I forget the name, but I have been very verbal and critical of it on this forum... we had a 13" HP BestRip and a fiery laser... I hated it, but they knew I knew my shit, but they were arrogant and stubborn so we went toe-to-toe many, many times.... I quit three times and they kept hiring me back... finally, they listened and respected me...

The platemaker was manual, and you loaded one plate at a time - back then we ran about 200 plates a day, and at max, could maybe make 18 plates an hour - there were two of us... OT was required and common...

Flash forward and we brought in Rampage and Agfa automated (at my request) - the cartridge held 50 plates and pulled slip sheets... we had a Heidelberg guy in from Seattle and fingerprinted our press to our BestRip (soon to to be EFI) running two Epsons - I forget the model numbers.... 4000 series... Life was good... then... Kodak

The owners were bitches of any fast-talking salespeople... they got sold on Kodak and I begged them not to do it... they did it anyway... I archived ALL our color settings and reluctantly switched over. We were remaking plates left and right, and couldn't hold color on anything. Some days I was there 20 hours. I was reading plates on a ... Gawd... I've been away too long... I forget the name of the dot reader.... anyway, on Agfa 20 was 20 was 20.... on Kodak, 20 could be 15 on one plate and 25 on the exact same plate produced a minute later... Kodak was miserable... after 45 days, we switched back to Agfa. FUCK Kodak.

After 5+ years at that place I went to Sig-1 and they were just switching from Kodak to Agfa when I got there. Lou Prestia from Oakland came in and fingerprinted our EFI to our Epson proofer and Agfa plates and in the 6+ years I was there, it remained consistent month-to-month on Rampage, so long as I checked the curve and updated after each cleaning.

What sucks, is that I did this kind of QC for 20+ years and I've been away from offset for 9 years (digital presses for 3) and now I can't remember the names of the shit I used every fucking day. 

[johnny_jay]

We had issues with scratches on Fuji plates when we switched from Agfa a few years back. Our Manroland plate loaders are very rough on plates. We had to go the the thickest gum possible and and to play with the water /gum mixture for a while until we got the recipe right, 100% Gum, 0% Water.

Our second plant (30 minutes south) runs the same plates and gum on Komori web presses and they 50/50 Gum/water.

Both plants have Screen plate setters.