Prinect Production Workflow for prepress

Started by RMPrepress, July 19, 2022, 08:01:29 AM

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RMPrepress

Anyone have any thoughts on how Prinect Production prepress workflow compares to Kodak Prinergy, Preps and InSite?
Has anyone used both?
We are currently Kodak Prinergy 9.5 and InSite 9.0.2 users.
We also use Heidelberg Prinect 2022 Pressroom Manager and a Suprasetter CTP.
We are venturing into adding Kodak ColorFlow w/ink optimization to Prinergy. 
Heidelberg is looking to sell us on the their version of ink optimization UCR which as far as i can tell is incorporated into their Prinect Production Workflow....can't see how else it would work which means they are really gonna try and sell us on Prinect Production not just UCR.
Manager/Default IT Guy - 2012 MacPro-2x3.46ghz-128gb-Monterey 12.6 via OpenCore
Kodak Prinergy 9.5.0 - Kodak Insite 9.2.0
Epson P9000 w/XRite Spectroproofer - FieryXF 7 - G7 Master Printer
Heidelberg Prinect 2022 + Suprasetter CTP

DCurry

Every workflow I've ever used has fallen short of Prinergy. It's just so danged flexible and easy to work with. I've not used Prinect other than we use one station to translate and send ink profiles to our Heidelberg press.

Prinergy 8.4.1.45 • Preps 8 (Not a fan) • SmartStream Designer

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night. But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

scottrsimons

We use Prinergy, but do not use their ink optimization. But we do use a product called Alwan for GCR. And I would be happy to run a file through it for you, if you would like. Just send me a pm with the file.

It's not fully integrated, but could be with RBAs. But it is pretty quick, and with it not being automated the operators have to check the files (well at least should) once they are done GCR'ing and before going into Prinergy.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!" - Homer J. Simpson

Joe

Agree with DCurry. Nothing beats Prinergy if you have the money to afford it.
Mac OS Monterey 12.4 | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

RMPrepress

Quote from: scottrsimons on July 19, 2022, 11:16:04 AMWe use Prinergy, but do not use their ink optimization. But we do use a product called Alwan for GCR. And I would be happy to run a file through it for you, if you would like. Just send me a pm with the file.

It's not fully integrated, but could be with RBAs. But it is pretty quick, and with it not being automated the operators have to check the files (well at least should) once they are done GCR'ing and before going into Prinergy.
Thanks for the offer...It's funny because we used Alwan a little bit before we had Prinergy and once we started using upload processing more and more in Prinergy then we had a problem because there was no way to incorporate Alwan into Prinergy.
I had heard of workarounds by using Enfocus Switch and we don't have the extra RBA with Prinergy.
That would all cost more money of course to implement.
Also we had starting having some transparency issues with Alwan if i remember correctly we would get some whacky behavior sometimes.
Manager/Default IT Guy - 2012 MacPro-2x3.46ghz-128gb-Monterey 12.6 via OpenCore
Kodak Prinergy 9.5.0 - Kodak Insite 9.2.0
Epson P9000 w/XRite Spectroproofer - FieryXF 7 - G7 Master Printer
Heidelberg Prinect 2022 + Suprasetter CTP

Joe

Are you really just wanting UCR or do you mean GCR?
Mac OS Monterey 12.4 | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

scottrsimons

I remember having some transparency issues with Alwan too, when we first started using it. We worked with the developer and tweaked the settings, and found a solution. But it's been so long, I couldn't tell you what it was exactly.

I wish you luck in finding your solution, what ever it may be.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!" - Homer J. Simpson

born2print

We have icc profiles to apply GCR in our Prinergy refine templates fyi, no extra product.
Take me to your ladder.
I'll see your leader later.

RMPrepress

Quote from: Joe on July 19, 2022, 11:39:52 AMAre you really just wanting UCR or do you mean GCR?
Good question....I understand the difference and my brief experience with Alwan GCR was that you better be real careful with substituting CMY values that add to or make gray tones with all K because adding all that K can lead to undesired results on press forms.  Kodak calls it Ink Optimization but they state it is really just GCR so that is where we are headed.  For some reason it seems Heidelberg uses UCR in their Prinect Production workflow or at least it is singled out as UCR with no mention of GCR.
Manager/Default IT Guy - 2012 MacPro-2x3.46ghz-128gb-Monterey 12.6 via OpenCore
Kodak Prinergy 9.5.0 - Kodak Insite 9.2.0
Epson P9000 w/XRite Spectroproofer - FieryXF 7 - G7 Master Printer
Heidelberg Prinect 2022 + Suprasetter CTP

RMPrepress

Quote from: born2print on July 19, 2022, 12:26:24 PMWe have icc profiles to apply GCR in our Prinergy refine templates fyi, no extra product.
You must have ColorFlow...no??
Manager/Default IT Guy - 2012 MacPro-2x3.46ghz-128gb-Monterey 12.6 via OpenCore
Kodak Prinergy 9.5.0 - Kodak Insite 9.2.0
Epson P9000 w/XRite Spectroproofer - FieryXF 7 - G7 Master Printer
Heidelberg Prinect 2022 + Suprasetter CTP

Joe

Quote from: born2print on July 19, 2022, 12:26:24 PMWe have icc profiles to apply GCR in our Prinergy refine templates fyi, no extra product.
Where did you get the profiles? I know you can make your own with ColorFlow if you buy the extra component with it to do that but of course that is extra money.

Quote from: RMPrepress on July 19, 2022, 12:30:32 PM
Quote from: Joe on July 19, 2022, 11:39:52 AMAre you really just wanting UCR or do you mean GCR?
Good question....I understand the difference and my brief experience with Alwan GCR was that you better be real careful with substituting CMY values that add to or make gray tones with all K because adding all that K can lead to undesired results on press forms.  Kodak calls it Ink Optimization but they state it is really just GCR so that is where we are headed.  For some reason it seems Heidelberg uses UCR in their Prinect Production workflow or at least it is singled out as UCR with no mention of GCR.

Yeah UCR is just saving ink by keep 4 color blacks under a certain limit and won't do much to color on press. GCR is whole other ball game as you stated some of the issues. With GCR software you can set limits for how far the GCR is applied. When I worked at a Roto Gravure planet we used a Linotype-Hell Chromacom System and we had GCR software that was included with it and we found you better be carful how far you let it go. If you applied too much pressmen didn't have any ability to make changes on press so if any changes had to be made you had to go back to the old Linotype-Hell Chromacom System and make the corrections, engrave new cylinder(s), re-plate for press and start-up all over again. We learned quickly how much to not use GCR to its full amount.
Mac OS Monterey 12.4 | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

born2print

Quote from: RMPrepress on July 19, 2022, 12:33:40 PM
Quote from: born2print on July 19, 2022, 12:26:24 PMWe have icc profiles to apply GCR in our Prinergy refine templates fyi, no extra product.
You must have ColorFlow...no??
We actually do not use Colorflow
Take me to your ladder.
I'll see your leader later.

johnny_jay

We are also looking at a few GCR solutions with our Prinergy Workflow. We are looking at Alwan, OGS Oris and ColorFlow.

We currently GCR with some Device Link profiles that we purchased form Kodak after a press test and they created them in ColorFlow Pro. They are a few years old and we want more options.

We currently have a demo of Alwan Color Hub, in our conversations with Alwan, Prinergy Rules can be written to hand off the files.
Our Front Runner now is Alwan LinkProfiler, with this we can create our own device link profiles and add them to Prinergy. The cost estimate we have seems like the best bang for the buck.

John
Kodak Prinergy and InSite
Preps
Epson P7000 driven by Fiery XF
Screen 16000N
Screen R36000ZX
3 web presses, 1 sheetfed press
G7 Expert

born2print

Quote from: Joe on July 19, 2022, 12:48:05 PM
Quote from: born2print on July 19, 2022, 12:26:24 PMWe have icc profiles to apply GCR in our Prinergy refine templates fyi, no extra product.
Where did you get the profiles? I know you can make your own with ColorFlow if you buy the extra component with it to do that but of course that is extra money.



We just have Harmony
I think the profiles were from Gracol? Originally?? perhaps shared with us from corporate I bet...
Then small chance we fine tuned but I do not remember...
Take me to your ladder.
I'll see your leader later.