Considering XMF

[impodave]

The finisher from the processor works fine - one needs to flush and change it bi-weekly.  I believe we had a situation with moisture or alcohol or something in the pressroom environment was etching the plates ....

[frailer]

FWIW...never been a fan of G&J, but have always been stuck with them.    :rolleyes:

[Grimace]

Okay.....
I've been sick the last few days but yesterday I limped in to go see the Fuji Dart 4300E and 4300E platesetters at some local(30 miles away) shops.

Nice folks at the shops and not a bad thing to say about the Dart, seems to be a solid machine. Quiter than I would have guessed, but not silent, I guess it depends upon individual environments and quiet they are to begin with.

Both shop were using the LH-PJ plates with outboard processors(don't know make).
I brought up the question about Impo seats to the sales rep, and he was unaware of the quit/restart dance needed with just one impo seat. He said he would find out what he could and get back to us.

Interestly enough, they sales guys we met with yesterday seemed to be happy enough to sell us any workflow that supported the Dart 4300. Both shops we visited were using Rampage and Preps, with Epson 7880 as proofer. They both seemed pretty happy with that setup.

So an open question- Is anybody glad they are using XMF over anything else they have used in the past?
I'm trying not to lock myself into a product decision at this point and would like to hear any point of view on XMF vs. anything else.

[frailer]

The answer, broadly, Grimace, is yes. The main proviso being I've only been digital in-house since '04. Started out with 2nd hand Harlequin running a Screen FTR filmsetter. Then in '07 the change to CTP, along with Fuji Celebrant CPSI RIP. Now XMF upgrade.
Apart from some minor irrits, which they may well fix, I really like the setup, and have got into the swing of it now we're a few months in. Can honestly say I don't even think about PREPS/Dyna, both of which we had and used. I was never a 'power-user' of either, but I got by.
I like the GUI of XMF, despite earlier snipes that it was a bit 'Kinder-Surprise'.   :laugh:  Thumb-nail previews, drag'n'drop, PDF (APPE) rendering, imposition adjustment/correction...all pretty friendly. The alternative/parallel workflows, as well as soft proofing options are handy. Some regard the 3D Java-based proofing as a gimmicky, but I like it. Viewing these as a 'flick-through' on-screen has saved me on occasion. Stuff has leapt out, which I otherwise may have missed. It's at this stage unique to XMF, as far as I understand.
Hope this is of some help. Impodave may have some thoughts, and has a longer history in this (digital prepress), than I do.

[Joe]

Okay.....
I've been sick the last few days but yesterday I limped in to go see the Fuji Dart 4300E and 4300E platesetters at some local(30 miles away) shops.

Nice folks at the shops and not a bad thing to say about the Dart, seems to be a solid machine. Quiter than I would have guessed, but not silent, I guess it depends upon individual environments and quiet they are to begin with.

Both shop were using the LH-PJ plates with outboard processors(don't know make).
I brought up the question about Impo seats to the sales rep, and he was unaware of the quit/restart dance needed with just one impo seat. He said he would find out what he could and get back to us.

Interestly enough, they sales guys we met with yesterday seemed to be happy enough to sell us any workflow that supported the Dart 4300. Both shops we visited were using Rampage and Preps, with Epson 7880 as proofer. They both seemed pretty happy with that setup.

So an open question- Is anybody glad they are using XMF over anything else they have used in the past?
I'm trying not to lock myself into a product decision at this point and would like to hear any point of view on XMF vs. anything else.

I know a lot of people use and love rampage but one thing to bear in mind is that it does not use the Adobe PDF Print Engine. (APPE)

[impodave]

It was a bit of a fight for me for awhile, but now I think things are smoothing out.  We started out in the late 90s with a Harlequin RIP with a Screen filmsetter, then moved to Nexus Pageflow with Dynastrip4.xx for impo.  Received absolutely no training on the Dyna, because Fuji had downsized and let the guy go that was supposed to work with me - that was fun .
My boss 'upgraded' to Nexus total PDF over a year ago without telling us he was doing it, we had a few days of training, but I don't think the girls ever gave the composite nature of Nexus PDF a fair shake.  After several license renewals, we decided to switch to XMF before the Nexus license ran dry. I had 10 days to get rolling before that happened.   
 The only problem I have now is getting someone? prepared so I can go on vacation ...

[beermonster]

right i'm gonna chime in here.

i do packaging and envelopes and we only print on board - no paper at all and never have the luxury of nice square pages to impose :undecided:

i have looked at xmf, apogee and trueflow - again from my point of view and only my opinion, i'm prolly punting for trueflow but am torn for apogee too

what i saw of xmf wasnt too pleasing - it did look a bit "special needs", annual "maintenance contract" to cover upgrades, and the flow of the thing didnt look very logical - it looked all over the place (maybe it was a bad demo) - again just my opinion. for my type of work it didnt seem geared towards it in any way. even trapping was an extra. trueflow seemed to do more things that I need, and apogee too - both with trapping as standard, trueflow with loads of licenses - and then price - xmf over here is 6k more than trueflow - even without the trapping as an extra!

no doubt xmf works - and maybe in a different environment to packaging its brilliant - i could see it being good with larger throughput as it did seem reasonably quick, but it probably aint gonna be the one for me.

cheers for the heads up tho frailer mate - ya never know until you go have a look.

[frailer]

Have to admit, I wondered afterwards whether it would be ideal for packaging. I can only comment from the B2 sheet-fed vantage point. Am surprised that in the UK, one of its natural homes, it would be priced beyond Trueflow. Crazy. But then I'm not a bean-counter at FFEI.

LOL, you had the initial 'Kinder Surprise' reaction to the GUI too.   :laugh:  I don't even see it now.
 

[Grimace]

Thanks for the honest feedback all, we're still on the fence about whether we "need" XMF or maybe just a standalone Imposition program.

I also like the idea of having to imposition integrated, less software for me to learn!

Beer, is true flow similar to Pandora? http://graphics.kodak.com/US/en/product/workflow_data_storage/production/production_planning/pandora_software/default.htm

[beermonster]

yeah "kinder surprise" does sum it up - but there ya go. the price difference is amazing - you get so much more with trueflow as standard - i dont get why xmf is overpriced - and i was only looking at the most basic rip model too :undecided:

no trueflow isnt an imposition package like pandora - it is a workflow and rip. it has some kind of packaging module (i think its based on artpro) but the kind demonstrators didnt have it when i demo'd it - which is stooooopid since i'm in packaging...well not me personally coz that'd be one big mofo box lol. "imposition" as such for us is done upfront in indy or illy, then ripped. same will be with whatever new rip/workflow we get - imposition up front, pdf into workflow, proof and plate

trueflow has imposition built in for other stuff tho, like normal print pages etc.

[Grimace]

Well, I think we are sold on the Dart 4300E, the local support is good, and from what I've heard, rarely even needed.

I need to add up some prices on the Rip side of things, and I hope i can make an urgument for XMF, it really does come down to what do we get for the money, and we're talking a lot of money for everything. The thing is, now I have to decide the best location for this thing, that all figures into the purchase decision as well.

Let's see....if we tear out this wall, or maybe move that "person" that also works here.....

[impodave]

If you need any input after install, let me know..... :grin:

[Grimace]

If you need any input after install, let me know..... :grin:

Oh, you can count on it, problem is, even if we wtote the check today, it would be 2 months out getting installed!
I'm doing all I can on my end to streamline this deal, but in the end, it's not my decision.

I was wondering about proofing thru XMF, do you print fully imposed proofs at all?

[impodave]

We got 'em to do it in four weeks, 'cause the license on the old flow was about to die.  I ended up with a 7 day window .....

[frailer]

I was wondering about proofing thru XMF, do you print fully imposed proofs at all?

Our setup is Black Magic, which is imaging the RIP'd file, then re-resing for press-proof. All linearised to the Komoris. So those are imposed. The usual commercial options are available, but be sure to ask the rep about TIFF Output module. Make sure you are connectable to proofing before you sign, so it is not sprung on you later.

For soft proofing, we sometimes Export imposed PDF's, but ours are not proofs of the rendered files, rather close-to-RIP of the PDF pages ready for RIPing. If you do no alternative imposing, these are as imposed for press. For each job, you can set up other 'Workflows', which all use the same Output files list, as updated. We've recently started to proof as spreads, by setting up an alternative imposition. Makes more sense for softproofing. You can have these set up as Stripping Sheet Templates, for repeated use.
3D 'Viewer' proofs can also be Exported. Very easy to do, small files, and these can be viewed by flicking through as a 'book' on screen. Can be zoomed in/out, and viewing aspect adjusted. If you're interested, PM me and I can upload one for you to look at. Most are only 6 ~10 MB.