Yes, that is a ROOM proof item. Not sure why it wouldn't be available in the US?

Just to be clear, I am running Sierra... it is a repackaged version of XMF, sold by Xitron. Maybe they are offering options that Fuji isn't when selling in the US but it is the exact same rip as XMF.

So, you don't have a ROOM proof in yours? What are you doing for imposition proofs? Didn't you say you are using a double sided proofer or something?

We have a "RIP Proof" option, it directly drives an Epson.

Right. That sucks. So, when you go to Admin>Templates>Workflow Item Templates, you don't see a ROOM Proof option?

You may have told us somewhere else but refresh me, what other devices are you driving? Just the Epson through the RIP proof option? And 1-bit tiffs for your Platesetter?

Quote from: m2r on October 12, 2011, 11:56:19 AMOne thing that we have not been able to overcome in XMF is teaching the 2nd and 3rd shift Pressman to remake failed plates.

3 pages later, and I'm awake, and at work, Thursday.     What I did was take some screenshots, print in colour, and draw arrows... Step 1, Step 2... put 'em up on the wall behind the server display. May come in handy for me as dementia sets in, as well.   :undecided:
Here, we had Black Magic from the start, back with the original 2nd hand Harly and Screen filmsetter. It works a treat, and integrated seamlessly with XMF; upgrades all the way, of course. Full rendered file integrity, though res'd to 720 dpi for the Epson 7900.

Quote from: m2r on October 12, 2011, 02:08:41 PMHard to tell, but are you using a ROOM Proof option?
I was told that is not available here in the US.

Sounds like you are being 'under-serviced', to say the least. Also sounds like earendil is getting slightly better service from the re-badged Sierra.
I'll contact the Serendipity guys today (Black Magic), who are based in sunny Sydney here, and ask who their agent(s) is/are in the U.S. May be of interest.

Yes indeed. I'm shocked they aren't including ROOM proof. It wasn't even an option in my install.

So, if I understand correctly, m2r, you don't have a license for a composite tiff, only your 1-bit plate tiffs, right? And the RIP Proof option is sending an imposed PDF?

Here is the link for USA Black Magic agents:

http://www.serendipity-software.com.au/dealers/blackmagic/usa/

QuoteSo, if I understand correctly, m2r, you don't have a license for a composite tiff, only your 1-bit plate tiffs, right? And the RIP Proof option is sending an imposed PDF?

Yes, RIP Proof is sending an imposed Layout (dunno if it's PDF or not, goes directly to an Epson)

We have gotten a Perm license for another TIFF output, but putting it to use is my problem (I do know how to install license)
I guess it's more of a Workflow design thing that needs to be addressed.

Current Workflow is:
Proofing Only Template, one for each, Coated and Uncoated stock (pleasing color only shop) outputs "normalized" PDF? to Oris Color Tuner Web to Epson 7900

When projects are Approved, they are re-sent to XMF to appropriate Press Templates
Press Templates have Press, Plate, and RIP Proofs items. Once job is imposed, and ripped, the RIP Proof is made, then Plates.

I am pretty sure I just don't grasp the XMF Workflow concept, hence we have no Flow.

Assuming that I do have the proper licenses, what would be a proper Workflow setup? (yes, I know every shop is different, but there has to be a baseline setup, and I'll be just below that)

My Apogee is set up as follows (your mileage may vary considering it is a different product, but the concepts remain the same):

Proofing and plating are in the same job - they are just 2 different branches of the same flow. The proofing branch is told to use the settings from the plating branch for things like trapping, separation handling, and rendering. This assures that the proof is processed in the same manner as the plate (except of course for the actual screening. The proofer data is 8bit @ 720dpi, while plate data is 1bit @ 2400dpi.)

You can see in this screenshot that the split occurs after imposition. The lower branch is the proofer. I can have as many branches as I want, for instance if I wanted a loose page proof I could start a branch to the proofer before the imposition. I could also have it make plate data for different presses by adding branches.

By keeping it all as one job, I don't have to drop the file into different queues like you do. Everything is 1-stop-shopping, and in the almost 2 years I've used it I've never had a plate that didn't match the proof (data-wise, anyway!)

QuoteYou can see in this screenshot that the split occurs after imposition.

That is one thing we were trying to avoid, jobs get bounced to different presses with different layout requirements at the last minute.
That's why we have a separate Proofing and Plating workflows.

It's pretty simple to change it on the fly. As I noted, you can also proof unimposed (loose) pages. Everything will still be accurate except for the imposition. The key factor is that all rasterization takes place on one engine with common settings, regardless of where it outputs.

QuoteAs I noted, you can also proof unimposed (loose) pages

I just don't know how to do that in XMF, except for the way we are currently doing it.

Quote from: m2r on October 13, 2011, 06:11:43 AM

QuoteSo, if I understand correctly, m2r, you don't have a license for a composite tiff, only your 1-bit plate tiffs, right? And the RIP Proof option is sending an imposed PDF?

Yes, RIP Proof is sending an imposed Layout (dunno if it's PDF or not, goes directly to an Epson)

We have gotten a Perm license for another TIFF output, but putting it to use is my problem (I do know how to install license)
I guess it's more of a Workflow design thing that needs to be addressed.

Current Workflow is:
Proofing Only Template, one for each, Coated and Uncoated stock (pleasing color only shop) outputs "normalized" PDF? to Oris Color Tuner Web to Epson 7900

When projects are Approved, they are re-sent to XMF to appropriate Press Templates
Press Templates have Press, Plate, and RIP Proofs items. Once job is imposed, and ripped, the RIP Proof is made, then Plates.

I am pretty sure I just don't grasp the XMF Workflow concept, hence we have no Flow.

Assuming that I do have the proper licenses, what would be a proper Workflow setup? (yes, I know every shop is different, but there has to be a baseline setup, and I'll be just below that)

Okay, first, to install the license: Go to the actual XMF server box... you can't do this from a workstation control client. From the Start Menu, select All Programs>Fuji XMF>Server Tool Set>License Tool. This should open a window with a list of licenses. Click the third tab labeled, Licenses. At the bottom, you will see an Add License button. At this point you should be able to input the license and serial number provided to you. This will unlock the licensed feature.

Once you have established that, I will try to help you create a new item based off this license. This is the hard part as you must be very specific with settings, similar to what Mr. Curry is talking about.

Also, what Dan says should apply to what you will need to do as it is basically the same as what I am doing and Joe, G, etc... Everything can and should be done within one job, just different branches. Our interface looks different than his Apogee picture but it is basically the same thing. I have basic workflow templates set according to the press it is going to and can modify stages within each job on the fly, adding and removing proofers, changing trap, etc... but it is good to have templates set up to take care of your typical default settings and fine tune from there, if necessary.

Again, as Dan stated, you should do your impo based on the press and the proofs will be a composite version of the imposed plates. Your current RIP Proof is taking your imposition into account, but not the actual plate rendering, similar to my Epson PDF. This is what we are trying to avoid.

I have some jobs to pump out this morning but go ahead and try to install the license... post your results and we can go from there. I will take some more in-depth screen shots of my workflow templates this afternoon and see if we can help steer you in the right direction.

Quote from: m2r on October 13, 2011, 08:06:00 AM

QuoteAs I noted, you can also proof unimposed (loose) pages

I just don't know how to do that in XMF, except for the way we are currently doing it.

Yep, I will help you with this later, if Frailer doesn't beat me to it.  :tongue:

You can have parallel workflows in XMF, with different plating/impo/proofing requirements. Pages can be 'assigned' at your will. They are just sitting there waiting to be sent/re-purposed in the Reading Order and Job Structure lists. Same with all the main vendors' PDF 'flows, I'd imagine.
See screenshot. Comment should have read.. 'Open another parallel workflow'. As you jump between Workflows, you can switch page assigning on and off as you open each window; each one being a whole job just sitting there, different impos/page assignments/presses.
Fire queries at us, and we'll go through it. I doubt, between ear ,impodave, and myself, there's much we shouldn't be able to nut out for  you. Ear's just driving the 'Mercury version' of the Ford, Sierra.

Some success here! It's slow, but seemed to work.
I have the Raster set to 720, 8x8 - that good enough?

Since we are a ways off OP Topic, should I start a new one?
Like "XMF 101"