Creeping in and out

Farabomb · July 17, 2015, 10:18:46 AM

I've seen it done both ways, 2 and 4. Personally I use 4 or if it's a critical job I take the paper and the amount of leaves and mic it. Then you get the exact thickness.

It seems from reading that XMF has some interesting options in the creep function. It may function differently than the basic preps 5 functions.

Tracy · July 17, 2015, 01:48:56 PM

If you can get the mic value of 1 sheet of paper, you only need to enter that number in the default creep
the mic values are in the paper books they order from, well for us it is. :azn:

80# gloss book mic is .0037 so I enter -.0037 in the default creep x value
XMF calculates the number of sheets and the creep

Grimace · July 17, 2015, 02:08:41 PM

Quote from: Joe on July 16, 2015, 12:26:54 PMCreep works by using the full distance at the center pages and less as it moves outward. The center pages move the full distance while the outer pages don't move at all. I've seen places use the creep in/out method but I don't really get why. I think DCS did it that way. There are a few discussions around here on the subject.

I have had to use creep out and in on projects with narrow margins. Usually some forms booklet with a border around each form, to keep the border reveal the same. If we used only creep in, the center page art will touch at the fold. Depends upon the art for sure.

Farabomb · July 20, 2015, 06:57:48 AM

My question is more about the theory of bleed than how XMF gets it done. We had a 114pg SS book with a intricate line drawing in the center spread and a rule around most pages .25 from the trim. I used preps and inner creep with scaling and all the borders remained .25 from trim and the center was perfect.

Now, if I used the inner-outer process wouldn't it put the outside pages border closer to the trim? Since the final size is what it's trimmed to you want the outer pages to not move and have it slowly creep in towards the center. That's what I believed the function of creep is. There must be a reason outer creep exists as I have the option in preps but it just doesn't make sense to me.

Joe · July 20, 2015, 07:24:05 AM

Quote from: Farabomb on July 20, 2015, 06:57:48 AMMy question is more about the theory of bleed than how XMF gets it done. We had a 114pg SS book with a intricate line drawing in the center spread and a rule around most pages .25 from the trim. I used preps and inner creep with scaling and all the borders remained .25 from trim and the center was perfect.

Now, if I used the inner-outer process wouldn't it put the outside pages border closer to the trim? Since the final size is what it's trimmed to you want the outer pages to not move and have it slowly creep in towards the center. That's what I believed the function of creep is. There must be a reason outer creep exists as I have the option in preps but it just doesn't make sense to me.

Here, I'll let DCS splain it...

https://www.b4print.com/index.php?topic=1810.msg29892#msg29892

Farabomb · July 20, 2015, 10:38:51 AM

I hate to say it but he does make sense. Take the total, spit it and push the outer and suck the inner pages in and it should compensate for the distortion of the SS binding. I've never known there to be any issue with just creeping the inner pages but I may try the inner-outer thing on the next book I do.

Does XMP have that option of inner and outer?

zacgil · July 20, 2015, 11:05:33 AM

Yeah, I can understand it a bit better now. I can think of instances where this inner/outer would have helped. I've had atleast one 150+ page book where the Cover only had an 1/8" bleed. With the curve of the spine you lose 0.0625"-0.125", which means we were left with a tiny bleed and had to undersize the product. This outer creeping would definitely compensate for that.

Farabomb · July 20, 2015, 11:22:39 AM

But what is the cover has an element that goes from FC to BC? wouldn't pushing out the outer pages create a gap? This may only concern self cover books but a lot of the ones I do are.

Joe · July 20, 2015, 11:23:57 AM

Quote from: Farabomb on July 20, 2015, 11:22:39 AMBut what is the cover has an element that goes from FC to BC? wouldn't pushing out the outer pages create a gap? This may only concern self cover books but a lot of the ones I do are.

Creep scale just like with other crossovers.

Nivin · July 20, 2015, 01:32:46 PM

After doing some testing, this is what we have found works for us. And seems to work well with borders close to the trim.

In the Default Creep, enter the paper thickness X 2 (negative number). Put this in XMF and find the Total Creep value.

In the Initial Creep, enter 1/5 the Total Creep (positive number) (we will modify this as we learn more). Default Creep remains the same.

The Total Creep seems to stay the same no matter what the Initial Creep is.

And we always have horizontal scaling turned on.

It seems strange that we need to double the paper thickness.

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Creeping in and out