...sorta like Reagan's neutron bomb, right? Kill all the humans; leave the buildings intact. What a lovely guy..
But sorta like that. I picked this up before I need to plate, but am glad I did.
A school Yearbook text set. All peachy except that the pics are in CMYK 'mono', and need to be Grayscale. All text, headers etc are in Black, or tints of Black. Text is 100K in the virgin file, but is Outlined...
So, pics are sole problem..but, I ran EAL 'To Grayscale, keep black text'.. before I'd realised that text had been outlined. (Yes, I should have looked.. ::) )
Can someone confirm that there is no EAL beast that will convert all my images, but leave everything else intact, like the Neutron Bomb?
It's only about 72 pp, so a manual conversion page by page is not too terrible,; I'll have time to do it, but cannot see such an EAL.
Output Preview is measuring Outlined type. You can see the 4 col pic...
Geez I'm glad most of you are asleep when I do this stuff. Gives me a chance to point out my own idiocy, rather than outsource it.
Just created an EAL for it :rolleyes: ... though there didn't seem to be a bog standard one.
But someone could point out where I select GrayScale conversion ( Prefs.. PitStop?)
Quote from: frailer on August 08, 2016, 07:30:31 PMGeez I'm glad most of you are asleep when I do this stuff. Gives me a chance to point out my own idiocy, rather than outsource it.
Just created an EAL for it :shocked: ... though there didn't seem to be a bog standard one.
But someone could point out where I select GrayScale conversion ( Prefs.. PitStop?)
Coudn't you do it in XMF Preflight.
There are 8 x 4col pages dispersed in the middle. I've Extracted those, & shall replace them in XMF Run List.
BRB..toolin' with this now after a Mel Brooks' High Anxiety style job that I've just finished plating.. after 2 early mornings to do the next round of reproofing.. ::)
I'll send you a page out of this job, mate, and you'll see what I mean. I've been over-thinking it. (where's Homer gone?)
Not sure I understand why 'Convert to Grayscale, keep black text' EAL won't work. As long as you have Color Management set to 'off' in Pitstop prefs the type will still be 100%.
Quote from: frailer on August 08, 2016, 07:30:31 PMGeez I'm glad most of you are asleep when I do this stuff. Gives me a chance to point out my own idiocy, rather than outsource it.
Just created an EAL for it :rolleyes: ... though there didn't seem to be a bog standard one.
But someone could point out where I select GrayScale conversion ( Prefs.. PitStop?)
Your Pitstop Color Management is in Pitstop prefs or you can add it to your toolbar so it is easier to get to.
Quote from: Joe on August 08, 2016, 10:44:54 PMNot sure I understand why 'Convert to Grayscale, keep black text' EAL won't work. As long as you have Color Management set to 'off' in Pitstop prefs the type will still be 100%.
Yep, when I toggled Off' with 'Japan Prepress etc...' which we've been running; I'd need to stick with the latter... (see screenshots).
Off gives bogged-in. Sorta solves one problem & creates another.
So, although a pretty rare occurrence I'll try and remember when it comes up again. :dementiatest:
Quote from: frailer on August 09, 2016, 12:30:25 AMQuote from: Joe on August 08, 2016, 10:44:54 PMNot sure I understand why 'Convert to Grayscale, keep black text' EAL won't work. As long as you have Color Management set to 'off' in Pitstop prefs the type will still be 100%.
Yep, when I toggled Off' with 'Japan Prepress etc...' which we've been running; I'd need to stick with the latter... (see screenshots).
Off gives bogged-in. Sorta solves one problem & creates another.
So, although a pretty rare occurrence I'll try and remember when it comes up again. :dementiatest:
I always keep the setting to off but you're right, converting images doesn't work well with the off setting. If I need to convert an image I change the setting to use the Acrobat setting. I keep off as the default because most of the time I'm just converting text and want to make sure the type stays at 100%. Using the Acrobat settings in the CM though makes the images look a little washed out so I then do a curve correction with Pitstop to fix it. I haven't found a good setting for images with Pitstop CM that I like.
Quote from: Joe on August 09, 2016, 07:27:44 AMQuote from: frailer on August 09, 2016, 12:30:25 AMQuote from: Joe on August 08, 2016, 10:44:54 PMNot sure I understand why 'Convert to Grayscale, keep black text' EAL won't work. As long as you have Color Management set to 'off' in Pitstop prefs the type will still be 100%.
Yep, when I toggled Off' with 'Japan Prepress etc...' which we've been running; I'd need to stick with the latter... (see screenshots).
Off gives bogged-in. Sorta solves one problem & creates another.
So, although a pretty rare occurrence I'll try and remember when it comes up again. :dementiatest:
I always keep the setting to off but you're right, converting images doesn't work well with the off setting. If I need to convert an image I change the setting to use the Acrobat setting. I keep off as the default because most of the time I'm just converting text and want to make sure the type stays at 100%. Using the Acrobat settings in the CM though makes the images look a little washed out so I then do a curve correction with Pitstop to fix it. I haven't found a good setting for images with Pitstop CM that I like.
Yep...seems to sum it up. The one I got caught out on (understatement) a couple of weeks back had Grayscale pics, but '4-col monos' in as well. Doing a Global one for images only (which would have preserved the tint boxes & type), still would have changed the standing Grayscale pics. Might have improved some, but made others worse. No choice on doing individually for the best result, (required in spades on that one). hahaha.. 20/20 hindsight. A wunnerful thing.
Sad as this may sound, it's my first self-written EAL that I've actually used. I'm a late adopter. :rotf:
Quote from: frailer on August 09, 2016, 04:17:51 PMYep...seems to sum it up. The one I got caught out on (understatement) a couple of weeks back had Grayscale pics, but '4-col monos' in as well. Doing a Global one for images only (which would have preserved the tint boxes & type), still would have changed the standing Grayscale pics. Might have improved some, but made others worse. No choice on doing individually for the best result, (required in spades on that one). hahaha.. 20/20 hindsight. A wunnerful thing.
Sad as this may sound, it's my first self-written EAL that I've actually used. I'm a late adopter. :rotf:
I don't think running a Pitstop 'convert to grayscale' will change an image that is already grayscale. At least with Acrobat DC and Pitstop 13 update 2 it doesn't.
Quote from: Joe on August 09, 2016, 04:33:15 PMQuote from: frailer on August 09, 2016, 04:17:51 PMYep...seems to sum it up. The one I got caught out on (understatement) a couple of weeks back had Grayscale pics, but '4-col monos' in as well. Doing a Global one for images only (which would have preserved the tint boxes & type), still would have changed the standing Grayscale pics. Might have improved some, but made others worse. No choice on doing individually for the best result, (required in spades on that one). hahaha.. 20/20 hindsight. A wunnerful thing.
Sad as this may sound, it's my first self-written EAL that I've actually used. I'm a late adopter. :rotf:
I don't think running a Pitstop 'convert to grayscale' will change an image that is already grayscale. At least with Acrobat DC and Pitstop 13 update 2 it doesn't.
.... unless the PDF was made by writing postscript, then distilling to PDF. Postscript will convert based on global rendering intent, as opposed to treating each image, object, page independently.
Yeah but I think we're talking here about a PDF created in 2016. Haven't you heard? Postscript is dead. :tongue:
Quote from: Joe on August 09, 2016, 04:33:15 PMQuote from: frailer on August 09, 2016, 04:17:51 PMYep...seems to sum it up. The one I got caught out on (understatement) a couple of weeks back had Grayscale pics, but '4-col monos' in as well. Doing a Global one for images only (which would have preserved the tint boxes & type), still would have changed the standing Grayscale pics. Might have improved some, but made others worse. No choice on doing individually for the best result, (required in spades on that one). hahaha.. 20/20 hindsight. A wunnerful thing.
Sad as this may sound, it's my first self-written EAL that I've actually used. I'm a late adopter. :rotf:
I don't think running a Pitstop 'convert to grayscale' will change an image that is already grayscale. At least with Acrobat DC and Pitstop 13 update 2 it doesn't.
Hmmm I could test that (I think it does), though probs a waste of effort, as, if we don't upgrade soon, we may as well not bother here. Not as though we're just doing store-front Chrissy cards and real estate flyers. GRRR!!
I think it's a combo of unassertive Mgr here, combined with bean counter(s) being pre-occupied with other aspects of the company... after all, we just burn printing plates, right? (winding myself up here... must calm down... get a cup of tea and consume piece of wife's quince cake... :git off mah lawn: )
I know I'm gonna catch shit for this, but I really never had very good luck with converting 4-color grays to black only with Pitstop. The problem I always had, was the converted image was just too dark and concentrated and plugged up bad on press, especially with offset substrates.
I manually opened every image in PS, run levels to balance it, then run an action with curves set to add 5% dot in the highlights and take the shadows down to 85 - 90%. It gives the Press guys a little more room to maneuver and does not plug up with offset paper.
It takes longer, but once you get into a groove, it goes pretty quick.
and what about change color (dot gain 15% works fine) by acrobat?.....it should leave text 100K and change only objects in CMYK and so on
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on August 09, 2016, 11:14:37 PMI know I'm gonna catch shit for this, but I really never had very good luck with converting 4-color grays to black only with Pitstop. The problem I always had, was the converted image was just too dark and concentrated and plugged up bad on press, especially with offset substrates.
I manually opened every image in PS, run levels to balance it, then run an action with curves set to add 5% dot in the highlights and take the shadows down to 85 - 90%. It gives the Press guys a little more room to maneuver and does not plug up with offset paper.
It takes longer, but once you get into a groove, it goes pretty quick.
I agree about not liking any end result with Pitstop. They are either too light or too dark it seems. But you can do corrections within Pitstop now so I don't really feel the need to open them in Photoshop unless it is a special case. My go to right now is to use the 'Acrobat' setting in Pitstop CM and then do a curve change 92% to 100% within Pitstop and it looks pretty good.
Quote from: elko on August 10, 2016, 12:03:48 AMand what about change color (dot gain 15% works fine) by acrobat?.....it should leave text 100K and change only objects in CMYK and so on
Yeah I've tried that but I still don't like the quality of the images being converted. Either too dark or too light for my liking.
Quote from: Joe on August 10, 2016, 07:08:35 AMQuote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on August 09, 2016, 11:14:37 PMI know I'm gonna catch shit for this, but I really never had very good luck with converting 4-color grays to black only with Pitstop. The problem I always had, was the converted image was just too dark and concentrated and plugged up bad on press, especially with offset substrates.
I manually opened every image in PS, run levels to balance it, then run an action with curves set to add 5% dot in the highlights and take the shadows down to 85 - 90%. It gives the Press guys a little more room to maneuver and does not plug up with offset paper.
It takes longer, but once you get into a groove, it goes pretty quick.
I agree about not liking any end result with Pitstop. They are either too light or too dark it seems. But you can do corrections within Pitstop now so I don't really feel the need to open them in Photoshop unless it is a special case. My go to right now is to use the 'Acrobat' setting in Pitstop CM and then do a curve change 92% to 100% within Pitstop and it looks pretty good.
Quote from: elko on August 10, 2016, 12:03:48 AMand what about change color (dot gain 15% works fine) by acrobat?.....it should leave text 100K and change only objects in CMYK and so on
Yeah I've tried that but I still don't like the quality of the images being converted. Either too dark or too light for my liking.
Well, I haven't had to do it in over a year. Getting behind the times, pretty quick. :shoots_self:
Ok so we have some work to do. :-)
If anyone is interested, could you send me, PitStop result, acceptable result you created elsewhere, and your PitStop color management settings.
We can then take a look at how we can improve.
Quote from: abc on August 10, 2016, 08:30:47 AMOk so we have some work to do. :-)
If anyone is interested, could you send me, PitStop result, acceptable result you created elsewhere, and your PitStop color management settings.
We can then take a look at how we can improve.
I'll find some examples and get them to you. Today I hope.
Quote from: abc on August 10, 2016, 08:30:47 AMOk so we have some work to do. :-)
If anyone is interested, could you send me, PitStop result, acceptable result you created elsewhere, and your PitStop color management settings.
We can then take a look at how we can improve.
I wish I could. I longer work in Prepress. I admire the fact you want to get this resolved, however.
Well it's what you would expect isn't it?
Not sure if we need some better ICC profiles or maybe some kind of adjustment options like you have in Photoshop.
Then again one size doesn't always fit all in these cases.
But we can certainly look and improve what we do now, or at least have additional options.
Quote from: abc on August 10, 2016, 09:23:31 AMWell it's what you would expect isn't it?
Have you ever dealt with Adobe? :rotf:
It is the last thing I expect from them.
Pretty sure DCS is not accustomed to a helpful provider in the print industry. I know it's pretty damn foreign to me and I thank that you and you team are so helpful.
Joe's response just supports my post. :rotf:
Maybe it helps that I used to be a prepress manager, so I feel your pain. Weird that I actually bought PitStop version 1 in Acrobat 3 when I was in production, and here I am now looking after it.
Strange how life works out some times
It comforts me greatly that the product mgr of PitStop has been in the prepress trenches.
:winner:
Quote from: abc on August 10, 2016, 09:23:31 AMWell it's what you would expect isn't it?
Not sure if we need some better ICC profiles or maybe some kind of adjustment options like you have in Photoshop.
Then again one size doesn't always fit all in these cases.
But we can certainly look and improve what we do now, or at least have additional options.
Expectations are one thing, a software company actually following though and actually helping is another thing entirely.
Not something I have seen in a LONG time, I mean we're talking Freehand 5 days. I too, feel better knowing a Prepress guy is taking care of business. Puts things in total perspective.
Sorry, only caught this back up when about to leave for early Friday knock-off.. woo! (gotta get moving and get wife's guitar saddle replaced... or I'll get demoted).
Joe, if you haven't sent ABC that stuff, I'll endeavour to Monday morning (ours, not yours :P ).
Post-tooling with compadra yesterday... seemed the 'Japan Prepress.." was the only one that gave a good 'macro/EAL' result.
But then again, it may also depend on the incoming files, how created, how saved... So, as always, a suck'n'see.
All's know is, it's made me more ready to jump in & try a few different settings on an Extracted page. In this case they were quite dark cmyk-monos. That setting really knocked em back good in the act of Gray'ing them.
Have a lovely weekend, y'all, when it gets to you...
Maybe take a look at this webinar from March 2015?
https://enfocus.webex.com/enfocus/lsr.php?RCID=5c57638d29eb41fcf1009fad1d9d1ae0
3 diffferent ways to get from CMYK to Gray. Starts around 21 minutes in.
Here is a PDF with 4 color black & white photos. None of the existing settings convert these to what I really like. Grayscale_CMYK.pdf (http://test.b4print.com/downloads/Grayscale_CMYK.pdf)
Great, can you send me a version of how you would like them to look in Grayscale, and also some information on the settings or corrections you did?
Quote from: abc on August 14, 2016, 06:39:33 AMGreat, can you send me a version of how you would like them to look in Grayscale, and also some information on the settings or corrections you did?
Oops...missed this post.
If you convert any of them using the Acrobat setting and then use curves in Pitstop changing 92-94% to 100% is the look I am going for. None of the existing CM settings give me that look. And if it makes any difference the conversion is not all that bad when converting a CMYK 4 color B&W to grayscale but RGB B&W to grayscale almost always looks bad.
Ok, which profile do you use for Gray in Acrobat?
Here are the Acrobat CM settings along with the edit screen for the Acrobat preset that comes with Pitstop.
QuoteAnd if it makes any difference the conversion is not all that bad when converting a CMYK 4 color B&W to grayscale but RGB B&W to grayscale almost always looks bad.
...confirm that, skipper.
Quote from: frailer on August 23, 2016, 04:41:36 PMQuoteAnd if it makes any difference the conversion is not all that bad when converting a CMYK 4 color B&W to grayscale but RGB B&W to grayscale almost always looks bad.
...confirm that, skipper.
...the professor and Mary Ann...
Here on Gilligan's isle.
Where'd this ever net out? I set my profiles to Joe's screenshots above, trying to convert a 16pg book with all RGB (should be grayscale) photos & they look flat, no matter which conversion method I try.
Went back & watched the webinar too, the Clean up Black Global isn't any better than the Convert to Color Space.
Quote from: Slappy on March 17, 2017, 01:19:22 PMWhere'd this ever net out? I set my profiles to Joe's screenshots above, trying to convert a 16pg book with all RGB (should be grayscale) photos & they look flat, no matter which conversion method I try.
Went back & watched the webinar too, the Clean up Black Global isn't any better than the Convert to Color Space.
Yeah that is my issue as well. I usually use the Acrobat profile to convert images and then adjust using Pitstop Curve and Brightness/Contrast tools to make them look better. Then I turn off Pitstop color management and run the convert to grayscale action list to convert any vector and text. That is on days when I feel generous. Other days I just convert everything with color management turned off and too effing bad for the dumb-ass people that can't create proper files in the first place.
We don't have a RIP, so we convert to K like this:
Quote from: Slappy on March 17, 2017, 01:19:22 PMWhere'd this ever net out? I set my profiles to Joe's screenshots above, trying to convert a 16pg book with all RGB (should be grayscale) photos & they look flat, no matter which conversion method I try.
Went back & watched the webinar too, the Clean up Black Global isn't any better than the Convert to Color Space.
Send me your pdf.