Indesign Spontaneous Swatch Change

Started by pabney, September 13, 2018, 07:57:09 AM

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pabney

I am researching an issue that popped up with a couple of files and want to get some expert input. I have two different files supplied by the customer that has a CMYK swatch with the build of 72,91,38,28. As far as I can see, there is nothing special with this swatch in either document.

We had a customer requested change to these files. Nothing to do with color. In both of these files, the color build "mysteriously" changed to build 76.078, 94.118, 38.824, 45.098 in both of the Indesign documents. Quite the color shift. The operator that did the changes says he did not change the color, has no clue how it changed, and can recreate the issue.

I only know of two ways for a swatch to change. A script or opening the swatch and changing the colors. Are there other ways? Maybe keyboard shortcuts, or the eyedropper, anything? I don't want to think that the operator did it and is just denying it, but I can not reconcile this happening in two separate documents, to the same swatch color, without it being on purpose.

Mikie

Sounds like color management is being applied?

Joe

Quote from: pabney on September 13, 2018, 07:57:09 AMI am researching an issue that popped up with a couple of files and want to get some expert input. I have two different files supplied by the customer that has a CMYK swatch with the build of 72,91,38,28. As far as I can see, there is nothing special with this swatch in either document.

We had a customer requested change to these files. Nothing to do with color. In both of these files, the color build "mysteriously" changed to build 76.078, 94.118, 38.824, 45.098 in both of the Indesign documents. Quite the color shift. The operator that did the changes says he did not change the color, has no clue how it changed, and can recreate the issue.

I only know of two ways for a swatch to change. A script or opening the swatch and changing the colors. Are there other ways? Maybe keyboard shortcuts, or the eyedropper, anything? I don't want to think that the operator did it and is just denying it, but I can not reconcile this happening in two separate documents, to the same swatch color, without it being on purpose.

So what is he doing when the change occurs when he recreates the issue?

Adjustment layers? Transparency changes? Yeah and never discount CM. Is his CM settings different than anyone elses?
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pabney

Sorry, that should have been can not recreate the issue.  In my haste to figure this out, I missed a VERY important word.

DCurry

Are the swatches originally built as Spot colors? Is the file being opened in the same InDesign version? If someone creates a file in an older version that doesn't use LAB, it could possibly change if opened in the latest ID, but only if the colors in question are based on swatch libraries.
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DigiCorn

Is the swatch being added by a linked vector graphic?
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― Johnny Carson

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– Nikki Sixx

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pabney

The swatch is built in Indesign, not from a linked graphic.
It is built as CMYK, not as a spot that is getting converted.
It is being opened in the same version of Indesign.
If I have the operator open the original file from the customer, and redo the changes, the swatch does not change.

AaronH

Check his color management in the program that made the PDF. If he is using something else, like GRACoL or something, a build/spot built in a different color space is going to change. I tried to do this in our shop a couple years ago when I got this great idea to change our entire CC colormanegment on all programs to use GRACoL since our RIP does, I thought it would be easier to see what it does up front. I was very wrong. Since most of our customers use the Adobe default settings, builds that were say 3 color builds, were coming out 4 color and "looked the same on screen" but were very different in print. I went back to the defaults.
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AaronH

Quote from: pabney on September 13, 2018, 10:30:23 AMThe swatch is built in Indesign, not from a linked graphic.
It is built as CMYK, not as a spot that is getting converted.
It is being opened in the same version of Indesign.
If I have the operator open the original file from the customer, and redo the changes, the swatch does not change.

Just re-read this. Maybe the customer applied a device link profile when exporting the PDF? Would that change it?
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DigiCorn

The supplier of the file is lying. He changed it.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

pabney

I think there is some confusion. It is not that the pdf is different (although it is). It is that the Indesign swatch itself is different.
I even looked via applescript and the two swatches have the same ID. So the original swatch did not get replaced. It got changed.

The change did not happen from a customer, but from one of my employees who claims it happened by itself.

Joe

Did he get any messages about Transparency Blend Space when he opened the document?

[attach width=400]18984[/attach]
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

Joe

Was the original swatch setup as "Process" and "CMYK" like this and if so was it still this way after the values changed?

[attach width=400]18986[/attach]
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

pabney

No warnings at all. In fact this was the third change to the file. The other two where done by other employees, and everything was fine the swatch did not change when they worked on the file. In fact, when the employee in question redid the change from correction 2 to 3 the swatch did not change.

The colors where built as 4/c like your screenshot before and after. Here is a link that will download the Indy files before (change 2) and after (change 3). I had to remove the content, but did not mess with the swatches.

  http://files.emprinting.com/_tkqIcCYt1BkM5R


pabney

OK, David Blatner just got back to me. If you open the document with the correct swatch, then go to edit->convert to profile, it will change the colors in the pallet. I just tried this, and I get the same color values as the wrong file. So this looks like what happened. However, this brings up a dialog box that has to be ok'd. The operator claims that nothing like this happened.

The struggle continues.