Contract color proofs - imposed press sheet or single "loose" pages?

[DCurry]

Just wondering what everyone does when it comes to contract color proofs - do you output a flat imposed proof, or single pages? I'm strictly talking contract color here, not impo "digital bluelines" that show pagination.

Here's the sitch:  In my old workflow, our color proofs came out imposed, so they looked just like the press sheet - marks, color bars, everything. Now that I've switched to Prinergy, I wanted to migrate us to "loose page" proofs - each page is a single page proof instead of imposed. This has several benefits in my view: it uses less paper (they come out ganged up and there is little waste), it is much faster, and if a press form has 8-up of the same page, I now only have to output 1 of them instead of the whole 8-up sheet. I still output an imposed "blueline" lo-res proof to fold down and show pagination.

After working all week getting Prinergy up and running and implementing this new scheme, one of the owners is complaining that he wants to see the whole sheet like before. We "discussed" it for a while. His concerns are that customers will forget to send all the proofs back and he doesn't want to fool with all the loose pages (he's actually taping them together into a press form now -- don't ask why). He also thinks that customers want to see the imposed sheet - I think it only confuses them and why should they care how the job is imposed anyway. If all the pages don't get returned, we simply re-output the missing pages -- easy peasy lemon squeezy. Besides, half our customers don't return the proofs as it is and we end up rerunning them anyway.

I managed to buy some time by asking him if we could try it my way for a while, but I wanted to see what others are doing in the meantime.

[Stiv]

What happens when you are on a press check? You have to sort through a stack of single page proofs? Would the pressmen tape them all together?

Our guys want the imposed proof. It is attached to the viewing booth at the end of the press.

If we have a client that wants single pages, we just run another set and cut them down.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Gonna go with Stiv on this. I catch a lot of mistakes on full proofs. We do have cheap customers that don't want to pay for them, but they also sign a waiver on color. Of course my company never enforces it, but it's the thought that counts.

Every job gets a full impose contract proof and DBL written into the quote. It is really up to Sales to say yes, or no on both. Basically, if the job is color sensitive we run full proofs. If it is not, we run DBLs only. If color changes occur on specific pages, we run a single contract proof for supplementation.

Really it all boils down to money. More commission and more risk, or less commission, full proofs.

[Joe]

We do imposed sheets although customers do not want an imposed sheet. We fold/cut it down into a sig booklet for the customer and then make another set of proofs for the pressmen whom will bitch if you give them single pages.

Hopefully if/when we finally get Prinergy we are going to softproofing for both the customers and pressmen. Single pages for customers and imposed flats for the pressmen.

[Bugs]

We do the same as stiv

[frailer]

Pretty much as per stiv'n'bugs. Though, if/when we go to to XMF (APPE), it could well change. I think then we may be generating PDF proofs from the RIP'd (strictly speaking "rendered", I guess), data.
At the moment our customers view imposed Black Magics. We're only B2, so it's not so bad.
If we have to soft-proof at all, without the customer seeing a BM proof, it's pre-RIP PDFs anyway, so we gotta watch our derrieres. Sometimes lately, they've started asking for spreads. No big deal...we just Export a set of lo/med res. But not RIP'd data!

Got a hunch too, that the revised hook-up with BM would enable spreads, with turnable pages; but safer for content because of being in the APPE environment.

BTW, Dan, your unique rotating avatars are a comforting link with the past. Don't lose 'em.    :cheesy:   I mean past forums, not past haircuts.  mmm, well, maybe the haircuts as well.    :embarrassed:

[pmhapp]

Loose pages here.  I can't even imagine what our customer's reaction would be if we tried to show them an imposed color contract proof.

[ninjaPB_43]

I do mostly postcards, but for our few monthly 32, 36, & 12 pagers I do layout proofs.  For the postcards, I do one-up side by side for front and back of card and fold them in half...  most(99%) of our cards get softproofed with the customer anyway and the pressmen don't bitch about not having a layout proof because I include impo'd lasers in the job jackets. No need to run full proofs of 8 of the same card. or whatever..   

for what it's worth one of our web plants we outsource work to Trend Offset does single pages and I hate having to download one at a time to look through a proof.  They should just output a 32 page pdf so I can download just one file. not 32....   

[David]

We do imposed proofs here, we also use them to qc the plates by, so they are dual purpose (Kodak Approvals and Epson's imposed for contract proofs).

We do some GPO jobs that actually have to be backed up approvals on job stock with all the press elements intact.

[Farabomb]

I mainly do imposed proofs here. To reduce costs we've been avoiding doing an imposed low-res so the imposed proof is used to check impo then cut down.

[tapdn]

Imposed proofs- If possible on same stock (endrolls) job prints on. Also for QC to check plates by and press proofs.

[DCurry]

Interesting responses - I was convinced that most would say loose pages. I should add that our loose page proofs are fully ripped (actually, refined) and trapped. I'm not so worried about checking the layout -- that is what our imposed digital blueline is for.

So far, our pressmen seem to be on board with the loose pages. It's actually easier to check the color to the press sheet since they can easily look at all the edges without other pages interfering.

My company recently announced that for the summer, each employee has to take one unpaid day of leave per month. During my discussion with the owner who is opposed to the loose page proofs, I told him that I was trying to save the company some time and money this way and that when I get my full hours back (everyone else, too) then I would entertain discussions of wasting the ink and paper on an imposed proof. He didn't have much to say after that.

[Stiv]

A quick look at the RIP shows 9 jobs with 100 to 200+ pages, 46 with 16+ pages, and 72 with 8 to 16 pages.

I guess it depends on the page count but single pages would not fly here.

Does your proofer gang up the pages? Ours (an Epson 9800) would waste way more paper running singles.

[DCurry]

A quick look at the RIP shows 9 jobs with 100 to 200+ pages, 46 with 16+ pages, and 72 with 8 to 16 pages.

I guess it depends on the page count but single pages would fly here.

Does your proofer gang up the pages? Ours (an Epson 9800) would waste way more paper running singles.

We rarely do books with more than 24 pages. Mostly 8 and 12 pagers, with an occasional 36 or more. Yes, we gang the proofs - our proofer is also the Epson 9800. We use ORIS Color Tuner and ORIS Hotfolder Manager, which has an option for scatter proofs to fill the media. Works pretty well.

[G_Town]

The customer signs off on 1-up proofs for copy and sometimes color (we usually have a color target to match) we also generate a full press sheet proof that is checked to the one ups prior to plating. Both the one ups and the impo proof go in the job bag.