Must be almost time now, to get this under way. Off to look for an external burner/drive on OWC in a mo.
Question: I run CD Finder as archive index. I assume I'd be able to mount (BluRay) disk in external, and it would show as a disk on Desktop. (To index a DVD in CD Finder, you drag the disk icon into the indexing list, it catalogues it, you then assign your own disk number/ID >> eject > store. Can't see why you shouldn't be able to do this. I'll consult CD Finder's website; info may be there too.
Oh, and single layer(25GB) would be safer for data storage, correct? :undecided:
I wouldn't do it when you can archive to hard disk cheaper and imo more reliably than on an optical disk. You can pick up a 500 gb drive for under $50. Just get one of those units from OWC that I linked to skryber recently. It will be faster, cheaper and more reliable than blu-ray.
Oh....here is the link I gave skryber:
Quote from: Joe on September 01, 2011, 08:42:30 AMIf you really want the all in one RAID 1 so you know you always have a duplicate then check out these puppies. Definitely the way to go if you have the cash for it...
The 1.5 TB + 1.5 TB model is in the range I quoted you before for the two externals. But much simpler to setup. And OWC will stand behind it.
Guardian Maximus (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax/?APC=READERSPC&Source=Blast11Aug)
(http://eshop.macsales.com/Customized_Pages/nwt_gmax/hlh1gmax.gif)
Hardware RAID-1 (Mirrored) data redundant solutions
I was gonna say...
I looked into it at one point but the cost was a turnoff. I'm even turned off by the dual layer DVDs which is why I don't have a boot disk for my secondhand iMac.
I remember the days when VHS movies cost $80 retail and now they're 50 cents at junk sales so it's only a matter of time.
This is true archive, rather than (often) accessed jobs. And not part of 'backup', which is separate.
But the OWC solution may be the one; just wanna make sure.
It's a once a week thing, if that. Sometimes 2~3 years back, usually more recent. My logic is that they're indexed, on a shelf, readily accessible. Not hooked up to anything, chewing current. Are you saying Joe that I could shelve that drive once full. Index it in some way. Then buy another and kick on again? When that's full....
Just want to clarify, as this is very occasional access.
We're using the same method as you frailer for archiving jobs - DVD & CD Finder. I do find that single layer DVDs usually have fewer problems than dual layer. When we're not busy, like right now, we'll burn maybe two DVDs weekly. When we're busy we'll burn a couple of DVDs daily. CD Finder does still seem to be the best tracker I've used. We still pull the occasional job out from the early 2000's and have never experienced a loss of data or an unreadable disc. Just in case tho' we do burn duplicates for every disc and store them offsite.
I just purchased two internal Seagate 1Tb drives for 58 bucks each from CDW.
They are almost getting to the point of being disposable.
Quote from: frailer on October 06, 2011, 02:00:06 AMThis is true archive, rather than (often) accessed jobs. And not part of 'backup', which is separate.
But the OWC solution may be the one; just wanna make sure.
It's a once a week thing, if that. Sometimes 2~3 years back, usually more recent. My logic is that they're indexed, on a shelf, readily accessible. Not hooked up to anything, chewing current. Are you saying Joe that I could shelve that drive once full. Index it in some way. Then buy another and kick on again? When that's full....
Just want to clarify, as this is very occasional access.
Yes, you can remove the drives and set them on the shelf and stick new drives in it and away you go. Also comes with:
ProSoft Engineering® Data Backup for Mac OS X v10.2.8 or later
NovaStor NovaBACKUP® for Windows 2000 or later
You can configure the drives as either 2 stand alone drives, a striped set (RAID 0), or a mirrored RAID (RAID 1).
We use hard drive backup but for both long term archive and short term backup. I'll never go back to tape or CD/DVD/Blu-Ray.
Thanks. I shall meditate on all the above.
Well, yeah, it's dawned on me at last that a 2TB. one would hold 500 DVD's worth, mirrored. Not to mention the extreme tediousness of burning/indexing. Please confirm my arithmetic's correct, based on 4Gb/DVD. The 0.7 Gb's really an unused margin, in reality.
Yep, that's pretty close. And the HD solution takes up a lot less space than 500 dvd's. As David mentioned earlier, "They (hard drives) are almost getting to the point of being disposable".
In my link above, if you are looking at the 2TB + 2 TB model, it will take a lot of time to fill those up. I would buy 2 extra drives and when the first gets full (2 TB because the other drive is used as the mirror) you can just pull them out and set them on the shelf, put the two new ones in and away you go. It might be even better to get two units because if you need to pull info from the one on the shelf you will have to pull the current drives in the unit and replace them with the old ones and when done swap them out again. 2 units of the 2TB + 2 TB model is still under $800 bucks.
Manager here just walked a rep through the door from the IT company that looks after the whole show, including parent Co. They are looking here (upstairs) at a new RAID5 (prolly) NAS storage. Long overdue for them. Mgr. brought him in to run my plan past him for going to RAID1 style archiving, away from DVD. (see earlier discussion).
He floated the idea of archiving our prepress jobs on their new server. We can see each other on the network; I guess we have a sub-net of sorts here. We have an 8 port Netgear GS108 to hook up the Macs, XMF server.
Anyone see any obstacles to 'piggy-backing' in this way? Rather than run something on my own?
Yeah, I'm sure they aren't going to let you do it for free so I'm sure he would love you to do that. The less hands in the fire the better in my book. I'd rather do it myself. But that's just me. If you archive to his server and it breaks down while he is on holiday in Fiji then you are screwed.
Well, in a way, it's more their problem than mine, if they want files moved onto there. There are 2 bods in the office, one's always there. If they need a job, in theory, they could look for it themselves. We usually access them for some piece of content that head office needs. It's not often.
I think I'd be happy enough with that stuff sitting on their RAID5 system. The novelty of DVD archiving has pretty much worn off, that's for sure.
We used to deal with an "IT company". Very bad experience. Paid top dollar for techs that came out that knew a lot less than me. It sucks when you have to fix the mess their techs create and then send you a bill for $2400. Never again. No siree Bob.
I still have a problem with the whole HD vs. Blu-Ray argument. I archive to Blu-Ray, use CD Finder for my Library. What took me a full day, sometimes longer of straight archiving to DVD, I can do in about 2 hours with Blu-Rays.
And it would probably be about 15 minutes to HD. Besides, I thought we settled this long ago an we agreed you were wrong. :tongue:
Quote from: Joe on October 21, 2011, 10:26:12 AMAnd it would probably be about 15 minutes to HD. Besides, I thought we settled this long ago an we agreed you were wrong. :tongue:
I left in a tizzy. :laugh:
I just don't trust HDs as much as I trust Blu-Rays/DVDs. I have DVDs and CDs over 20 years old that still work exactly as they did when I burned them. I do not have an HD from that time. That's not saying ALL my archive disks work... just the majority of them. Goddamn bit rot.
So you spray those DVD/BulRay with a magical potion to prevent bit rot on them?
Quote from: Joe on October 21, 2011, 10:33:29 AMSo you spray those DVD/BulRay with a magical potion to prevent bit rot on them?
No... do you spray your HDs?
No but you seem to think the HD will go bad on the shelf but the DVD/BluRay won't. Hell if you pick up a DVD/BluRay and look at it wrong it scratches. Too delicate for my hands.
Quote from: Joe on October 21, 2011, 10:37:22 AMNo but you seem to think the HD will go bad on the shelf but the DVD/BluRay won't. Hell if you pick up a DVD/BluRay and look at it wrong it scratches. Too delicate for my hands.
No I do not think this. When did I say Blu-Ray/DVDs are exempt from bit-rot?
Well, you said you think they are more reliable long term.
QuoteI just don't trust HDs as much as I trust Blu-Rays/DVDs. I have DVDs and CDs over 20 years old that still work exactly as they did when I burned them.
Quote from: Joe on October 21, 2011, 10:50:10 AMWell, you said you think they are more reliable long term.
QuoteI just don't trust HDs as much as I trust Blu-Rays/DVDs. I have DVDs and CDs over 20 years old that still work exactly as they did when I burned them.
I said this, too... "That's not saying ALL my archive disks work... just the majority of them"
I do think they are more reliable long term, but I do not think they are exempt from bit rot.
I'm not taking sides, I like my skin where it is. Being a geek that was single for 10+ years I've done a lot of reading and if it was my choice I'd have redundant archives on HDDs. Optical media holds less, is more prone to physical damage and the plastics can deteriorate over time. HDDs weren't a viable option years ago but now they're dirt cheap. I have lost exactly one hard drive in all my years of dicking with computers. I've had HDDs in floods and fire and they all still work. Would I trust them for archives in that state, no but they can serve as disposable external drives. I have a pair of 15g Maxtor drives that have been my RAID system drives in every one of my builds except my last 3.
Just do what works for you and backup the backups and you shouldn't have issue.
We are all a product of our fuck-ups and the fuck-ups of the machines we use. Fair enough.
Quote from: Joe on October 21, 2011, 10:26:12 AMAnd it would probably be about 15 minutes to HD. Besides, I thought we settled this long ago an we agreed you were wrong. :tongue:
Hmmm... sounding like the good old days. :laugh:
Quote from: frailer on October 21, 2011, 01:51:07 PMQuote from: Joe on October 21, 2011, 10:26:12 AMAnd it would probably be about 15 minutes to HD. Besides, I thought we settled this long ago an we agreed you were wrong. :tongue:
Hmmm... sounding like the good old days. :laugh:
That is does, mi Capitan.
You can keep your etch-a-sketch hard drives unless you're running ZFS. Stone carving has always stood the test of time... behold (http://millenniata.com/)
Hey Nick! :hello:
well look what the cat drug in...
and, not bad, and the price seems reasonable.
etched into the dvd, what a concept.
OWC Mercury Pro (http://eshop.macsales.com/search/external+blu+ray) (Pioneer BDR-206) is the gold standard for now until the stone carvers are released. 25Gb discs are $1 a pop at Meritline (http://www.meritline.com/memorex-blu-ray-bd-r-4x-25gb-media-discs-98499---p-46672.aspx).
Recording a CD at 1X is not the same as recording a DVD at 1X. The same is true for Blu-ray, where 1X is equivalent to approximately 2.4X for DVD. The media I mentioned above is 4X which writes at 18MB/s and takes about 24 minutes. The burner is capable of 12X which equates to 8 minutes.
Joe... yes when you look at optical it scratches it, you know what it doesn't do? It doesn't corrupt it's firmware, it doesn't crash it's head, it doesn't burn out it's motor. No working parts means more reliable. As long as you don't scratch the label side you can buff out the plastic side, I paid a buck to have a firm restore my GTA3 disc when it had deep canyons on it from a PS2 that went haywire on it.
Farabomb... I wouldn't wipe my arse with a Maxtor drive. I don't have fanboy feelings about any brand hard drive, I like Seagate, Hitachi, Toshiba, etc... WD's have firmware design that makes them much harder to recover than all of the other brands when they go south. Maxtor are absolute crap, period, I swore off of them years ago after having 7 fail within 6 months of each other. I've replaced dozens and dozens of failed drives around here, I already know before I pop the case what kind of drive is going to be in there... Maxtor, and I guess right 95% of the time. And yes I know they are owned by Seagate, they're still crap.
I buy Guardians here for system clones but not for archival purposes. I wouldn't trust any data on any drive without ECC ram used to write to it and ZFS stripes on it.
Appreciate the input. Everything's a relative risk assessment, like stepping out the front door on a Saturday morning, which I'm about to do.
We are talking here, in our situation, old jobs which would be accessed rarely, and even then, rarely critical requirement.
For my purposes, even with reduced time in BluRay burning, the benefit of not having to do it far outweighs any risk. At least that's how it looks here. I'd rather spend the time cranking the knowledge on lyndadotcom, or summin. OK, yes, I can do it while BluRays are burning, but it's a distraction. Then there's the indexing.
Others probably have more critical data retrieval requirements.
Well, I've been copied into the quote from 'IT Man' (himself... if he hadn't, I'd still be in my usual state; KITDAFOBS_Kept In The Dark And Fed On Bullshit). Seems he's quoted to include pp in the RAID5 (upstairs), proposed. I'm OK with that, (too old to care?)
One question, though. Would there be possible problems, say, with fonts losing their resource forks, stuff like that, when they're retrieved? Being transferred into a PC environment...
Up against my knowledge ceiling here. :cheesy: I may be flappin' about nothing. :undecided:
Yes, there can be font problems depending on the server and OS and version of OS.
I guess ZIPing fonts folders would help. A lot of jobs now are PDF-only. No surprise.
Couldn't hurt.
KITDAFOBS_Kept In The Dark And Fed On Bullshit. AKA Mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed shit.
Quote from: Farabomb on October 25, 2011, 07:05:52 AMKITDAFOBS_Kept In The Dark And Fed On Bullshit.
Are you referring to the television watching masses? :laugh: