Mutoh ValuJet

Started by DigiCorn, May 18, 2012, 11:52:16 AM

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DigiCorn

#15
May 21, 2012, 02:15:16 PM
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Duffy

#16
May 21, 2012, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: DigiCorn on May 21, 2012, 02:15:16 PMFound this: http://dodichandra.com/products/Mutoh-ValueJet-1624-64%252dinch-Outdoor-InkJet-Printer.html

But I don't think I trust these guys.
says it has a Spectro but says nothing about a RIP
Eyeballing shit is for titty-bars, NOT laying out files. DCS 7/12

Skryber

#17
May 22, 2012, 12:28:14 PM
We bought the machine at the print show as a demo from Fuji and got all our supplies from them. We used Fuji for everything in prepress. The shop I'm at now, the machine is an Oce badge over. It's called the Oce 9060. It's identical to what we had at the old shop. So we have to get our supplies from Oce now. I don't care for Oce, but we are Oce resellers. They don't sell that machine anymore and I don't know why.
Rampage 11.1 • Preps 5.32 • Fuji Film Sabre P-9600 CTP Platesetter with inline FLP 1260 processor • Rampage •  ManRoland PECOM using CIP3 data • HP DesignJet 5500 42" 6/C • Epson Stylus Pro 9880 • Xerox Docucolor 8000 with Fiery • Mutoh ValueJet 1604 • Océ Arizona 250 GT • Océ Arizona 365 GT • Onyx Production House/THRIVE • ManRoland 700 5/c + coat and 2/3 perfect • and a coupla' Heidelbergs and other stuff

DigiCorn

#18
May 22, 2012, 12:32:43 PM
Quote from: Duffy on May 21, 2012, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: DigiCorn on May 21, 2012, 02:15:16 PMFound this: http://dodichandra.com/products/Mutoh-ValueJet-1624-64%252dinch-Outdoor-InkJet-Printer.html

But I don't think I trust these guys.
says it has a Spectro but says nothing about a RIP
If it doesn't come with it's own front end, I plan to use EFI Coloproof XF

Quote from: Skryber on May 22, 2012, 12:28:14 PMWe bought the machine at the print show as a demo from Fuji and got all our supplies from them. We used Fuji for everything in prepress. The shop I'm at now, the machine is an Oce badge over. It's called the Oce 9060. It's identical to what we had at the old shop. So we have to get our supplies from Oce now. I don't care for Oce, but we are Oce resellers. They don't sell that machine anymore and I don't know why.
We're an Agfa-Pittman shop, so I don't think that's gonna work for us. Our owner is pretty deep under the covers with our rep, so there's little chance he'll ever stray. Even though it's becoming an outdated concept, I think he's monogamous.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

t-pat

#19
May 22, 2012, 12:55:39 PM
depending on what you're doing with it EFI won't cut it.
Seriously - doing large format is different than doing proofs. Speaking from experience here. Look at FlexiSign or Onyx Poster Shop (or whatever they're calling it now)
vdp donkey
gmc inspire • sarcasm while you wait

Duffy

#20
May 22, 2012, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: t-pat on May 22, 2012, 12:55:39 PMdepending on what you're doing with it EFI won't cut it.
Seriously - doing large format is different than doing proofs. Speaking from experience here. Look at FlexiSign or Onyx Poster Shop (or whatever they're calling it now)

EFI bundles the S series Eco Solvent with Onyx for around 15,000
Eyeballing shit is for titty-bars, NOT laying out files. DCS 7/12

DigiCorn

#21
May 22, 2012, 02:08:47 PM
Quote from: t-pat on May 22, 2012, 12:55:39 PMdepending on what you're doing with it EFI won't cut it.
Seriously - doing large format is different than doing proofs. Speaking from experience here. Look at FlexiSign or Onyx Poster Shop (or whatever they're calling it now)
so an XLL License through EFI with a 64" plotter won't cut it? Mostly we'll be ganging posters at around 36" x 48". I have a "poster" rip set up in Rampage that rasterizes it and sends it to EFI. Our 10600 died, but this process worked fine when we had it.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

t-pat

#22
May 22, 2012, 02:46:57 PM
the license will probably cut it, the actual software is probably going to fall far short of your needs if you are planning on doing anything big. The software I've mentioned twice now is SPECIFICALLY FOR LARGE FORMAT -- god I feel like I'm on ignore sometimes.

There are a lot of differences between making cmyk proofs and making displays and banners.

First and foremost, you probably don't want cmyk color gamut, you want the full gamut of the printer. afaik our EFI color proof software will not do anything but a cmyk conversion (I could be wrong on this but haven't spent time trying since I don't care here).

It also is very very slow and the larger you go the slower it goes. FlexiSign comes with a design/layout tool that blows away most other things for handling large type and upsampling shitty low res placed graphics, and it comes with a nice rip that can run standalone on some other box and gives you a lot of nice features for output. Also handles contour cutting if you have a machine that will do that.
ALSO you can control the printer much more via software on things like - PRINT DIRECTION (single direction/bi-direction) HEAD SPEED, PAUSE TO DRY, and many other things that you need to take into consideration when doing huge prints.

I won't go and list all the things that large format software specifically will do vs. a proofer software but you really should go look for yourself.There are lots of siginificant differences.
vdp donkey
gmc inspire • sarcasm while you wait

Farabomb

#23
May 22, 2012, 03:27:58 PM
Digi can be a bit thick at times.

As always, use the proper tool for the job.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

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Quote from: Farabomb on April 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AMIt's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
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         —Benjamin Franklin
My other job

DigiCorn

#24
May 22, 2012, 03:30:45 PM
Sorry. Didn't mean to give you the impression I was ignoring you. Just wanted to piss you off. jk. Actually, having used FlexiSign and Inspire something like 15-20 years ago, I was really unaware of the benefits software might provide. We are doing some of this work on a smaller scale right now (mostly 24 x 36) and are RIPping and then printing. It seems fairly stable and hasn't caused any huge issues, other than our latest order was 54 30 x 20 prints and 46 24 x 16 prints and the process of RIP and print took 18 hours (about 10 minutes per print).
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

t-pat

#25
May 22, 2012, 03:47:00 PM Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 03:48:55 PM by t-pat
Quote from: DigiCorn on May 22, 2012, 03:30:45 PMSorry. Didn't mean to give you the impression I was ignoring you. Just wanted to piss you off. jk. Actually, having used FlexiSign and Inspire something like 15-20 years ago, I was really unaware of the benefits software might provide. We are doing some of this work on a smaller scale right now (mostly 24 x 36) and are RIPping and then printing. It seems fairly stable and hasn't caused any huge issues, other than our latest order was 54 30 x 20 prints and 46 24 x 16 prints and the process of RIP and print took 18 hours (about 10 minutes per print).

If you are ok with XL I guess keep it, because you own it and Flexi certainly is not free. (well, it was for me but that's illegal) - If you are doing layout and displays you might remember how good Flexi's design and layout tools were. No better tool for styling type imo.

Somehow it also magically upsamples low res graphics a million times better than just simply scaling them up. Don't know how, but when I used it to blow stuff up it didn't just make the pixels bigger, it did something to make it actually still look good at 400+ % scaling.

Color gamut - you want things to "pop" - your printer can print way beyond cmyk gamut, customers will not know what this means but they will know when they see the difference

Speed - sending things that were natively done in Flexi was way faster than dropping pdfs. Good rip on it.

Control - you'll want to do things like slow the print down or speed it up depending on the job. You might want to print single pass slowly or overlap passes more often, for better depth of color, to facilitate drying or to make up for a bad nozzle. If you've ever had a print with ink running off it, you get it. Easy with Flexi.I mean, really easy

Color profiling for substrates - didn't do a lot of this but I remember it being very easy to do. I ran an older version with a shitty Encad printer.

- Edit - I have no experience with Onyx but some others do and I've heard good things about it - I would guess it does a similar job.
vdp donkey
gmc inspire • sarcasm while you wait

t-pat

#26
May 22, 2012, 03:58:12 PM
Our new HP 510 just arrived, need to assemble it tomorrow. Looks like I might be able to take the spinjunk home for myself. I'm pretty sure I can fix whatever is making it shit ink everywhere. Probably be able to take the massive pile of consumables too!
vdp donkey
gmc inspire • sarcasm while you wait

Duffy

#27
May 23, 2012, 08:40:20 AM
Be sure that you look at speeds also, the Mutoh is half as fast as the Epson S30670.

Have talked to a guy that used to rep the Epson line and he says this is a good printer for the money.
Eyeballing shit is for titty-bars, NOT laying out files. DCS 7/12

gnubler

#28
May 23, 2012, 08:45:52 AM
Has anyone done a speed test on your wide format? Bossman asked me to figure it out so I was planning to run a random image at the three quality settings and then give him the time/print area numbers.
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Quote from: pspdfppdfx on December 06, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
So,  :drunk3: i send the job to the rip with live transparecy (v 1.7 or whatever) and it craps out with a memory error.

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Duffy

#29
May 23, 2012, 08:55:47 AM
Quote from: gnubler on May 23, 2012, 08:45:52 AMHas anyone done a speed test on your wide format? Bossman asked me to figure it out so I was planning to run a random image at the three quality settings and then give him the time/print area numbers.
Most  have specs that show speeds at the different quality settings but your way is best because they can seethe quality they are getting vs. speed.
And nonre of them include RIP times in anything.
Eyeballing shit is for titty-bars, NOT laying out files. DCS 7/12
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