Bleed - why is it needed?

[Laurens]

I am trying to come up with a list of reasons why designers need to use bleed in their designs:
- compensating for (mechanical) inaccuracies in finishing equipment
- allowing for small operator errors
- creep/shingling

Anything else that I am not aware of?

[Ear]

Pretty colors for the recycle bundles! 

Otherwise, you're list is spot on! I think ALL designers should do a short stint in bindery, that would cure most of them. That's where I started and it has proved invaluable to my knowledge in prepress.

[gnubler]

I'll tell you why - because it's nauseating standing at the cutter trying to short-cut a stack of business cards that for some odd reason made it to press without any bleeds. After butchering all four sides with 1mm buzz trims I often just threw the whole stack in the trash and put in for a reprint.

I agree that it should be a requirement for anyone designing for print to spend an afternoon at the cutter with a few "problem jobs".

[Joe]

Not only do they need to use bleed in their designs but they need to include it in the PDF they send me. And for the exact reasons you stated in your list although they don't usually like to hear that there are inaccuracies and operator errors involved in their jobs. Damnit, they could run their black type as registration if we would just run the job in register!

[jimking]

It's not just bindery, it's the press too. Paper is not exactly the same size even if pretrimmed, temperature and different kinds of paper and Gripper issues. Sheet size, flaring issues, diecutting issues. All can then be exaggerated in bindery. We need bleed, damn it! 

[EyeTech]

Try this simple exercise... get a scalpel and a straightedge, take a piece of printed paper and then attempt to slice precisely on a colour edge without getting colour on the trim-off or white on the colour. That's one sheet with a teeny scalpel and you're really trying hard - real life is... you need to trim between 500 and 1000 sheets in one go with a 40 or 50" guillotine blade. All the time the paper is trying to squirm out of position - oh and don't forget dimensional instability  - paper is an organic product and when printed is subjected to mechanical stresses and humidity.

We'd regard 2mm bleed as a minimum for basic trimmed work such as flyers & posters, 3mm is the ideal for most work but other processes may demand more ie covers for booklets with numerous sections or thickish pages.

[Ear]

Well put ET!!!

[born2print]

Bleeds are covered, now I'd say it's worth addressing margin as a similar issue:

Avoid small/thin white borders at trim!
Spine margins: saddlestitched / 3-hole drilled / PERFECT BIND! (Need extra spine margin for hinge score zone)

[Ear]

Yeah! Margins FFS! I like 3/8 minimum margin. I produce many high page count publications that need to have creep added, margins are a must since some of it will be eaten up by the creep setting!

How about watching where you put cross-overs too! Placing a picture that will cross from one signature to another where we will have to worry about matching color, folding, stitching, etc...

[Laurens]

Thanks everyone for the feedback on bleed, which was useful for a page about it that I am working on.

When it comes to margins, the variety of rules is probably much bigger than with bleed. Think of posters like the backlit 'Abribus' posters (used in bus stops, probably only known by that name in Europe, I have no idea what equivalent sizes are named in the US or elsewhere). Designers need to be aware there is a visible area in such a poster as well as a certain 'safety zone' where no logo's or other critical design elements should be placed.

[delooch]

do designers really need an explanation of bleed? is someone resisting to include a bleed in their file?

[Gutnbg]

don'tcha wish you could start a conversation with a client (or CSR) with "Thou shalt...."?

[LoganBlade]

or a great classic

"Jane you ingnorant Slut!"

[EyeTech]

DeLooch... you are kidding right?

Designers need more education in respect of requirements for print - I've lost count of the amount of times we get files without bleed (surely the simplest of concepts to teach) from so called professional designers. The latest was yesterday from our local newspaper - see pic.

Or maybe it's just sheer laziness. You tell me.

[LoganBlade]

Some of it has to do with the old adage those who cant' teach. Not saying all teachers are bad but when I got my degree in design. I had teachers telling me to design EVERY thing in 4 color. Coming from printing I can't tell you how many time I had to correct what they were teaching. Maybe my school just sucked but it helps me be a little sympathetic to the designers when I have to explain. I just hate explaining the same concepts again and again and again and again. It is said here often. If designers worked in a print shop actually working with a pressman and the bindery staff they would maybe understand what is going on.