Considering XMF

Grimace · March 03, 2010, 11:27:43 AM

Hi all, I just found this forum, lots of good info here!

Our shop is finally moving toward CTP and the front runner in our quest right now is XMF with a Dart 4300E.

I saw that impodave was using the same setup, I got some questions.....

Regarding the Dart, how noisy is it?
I have not had the opportunity to check one in person. Some one else had noted that their Avalon was pretty quiet, noise wasn't something I had thought about!

XMF- any regrets or issues other than what you've discussed here.

I appreciate any feedback you can give me! Cheers!

Joe · March 03, 2010, 11:42:11 AM

Welcome to the forums. I'm sure our XMF people will be around soon.

frailer · March 03, 2010, 12:41:54 PM

Hi Grimace, welcome.
We upgraded from Fuji Celebrant CPSI RIP, so it was a logical step. Apart from any problems aired here, no regrets at all. Now that we have a handle on the imposition side, things are traveling a lot smoother. Takes a little getting used to, but no quirkier than Dynastrip. Having imposition fully integrated makes a huge difference, too.
If you wander through the threads you'll pick up any problems we've had. Post specific questions as they arise. Good luck in your decision.
Just beware the number of seats for imposition client(s). A sales trap. Don't know how big you are, but we are kind of 1 full-time + 1 part-time right now. On the days there's 2 of us, it would be a major PITA with only 1 seat.The client has to be Quit before the other can pick it up. This one rates a special mention! :laugh: You will be fore-armed for the rep. :evil:

Grimace · March 03, 2010, 03:00:33 PM

Quote from: frailer on March 03, 2010, 12:41:54 PMJust beware the number of seats for imposition client(s). A sales trap. Don't know how big you are, but we are kind of 1 full-time + 1 part-time right now. On the days there's 2 of us, it would be a major PITA with only 1 seat.The client has to be Quit before the other can pick it up. This one rates a special mention! :laugh: You will be fore-armed for the rep. :evil:

I saw your thread on this also, I'm wondering if our agreement in the U.S. will work the same, one of the selling points to me was the "open" nature of XMF. As it was described to us, we can log into XMF from any computer on the network and use it to impose and print to our copier as well. I will definitely ask about the client seats though.
We looked at Prinergy and was initially impressed, but all the add-on modules were a put off.
Preps looks to be perhaps the more ubiquitous and robust impo system, but the impo in XMF looked to be pretty user friendly.
As it is, I really don't have to unlearn anything, I'm just using Illustrator and PDF Snake right now!
Our current "RIP" system is a 2up and a joke, the imposition on it makes PDF Snake look like a pro set up.
Right now I strip up every2up/4up from film, so a 4up CTP will be a real treat.

Grimace · March 03, 2010, 03:05:27 PM

By the way..Thanks for the welcome and the information, sorry I kinda just lept into it!

frailer · March 03, 2010, 03:21:54 PM

Quote from: Grimace on March 03, 2010, 03:05:27 PMBy the way..Thanks for the welcome and the information, sorry I kinda just lept into it!

...that's the general idea here. :laugh:

frailer · March 03, 2010, 03:55:45 PM

Quote from: Grimace on March 03, 2010, 03:00:33 PM
Quote from: frailer on March 03, 2010, 12:41:54 PMJust beware the number of seats for imposition client(s). A sales trap. Don't know how big you are, but we are kind of 1 full-time + 1 part-time right now. On the days there's 2 of us, it would be a major PITA with only 1 seat.The client has to be Quit before the other can pick it up. This one rates a special mention! :laugh: You will be fore-armed for the rep. :evil:

I saw your thread on this also, I'm wondering if our agreement in the U.S. will work the same, one of the selling points to me was the "open" nature of XMF. As it was described to us, we can log into XMF from any computer on the network and use it to impose and print to our copier as well. I will definitely ask about the client seats though.
We looked at Prinergy and was initially impressed, but all the add-on modules were a put off.
Preps looks to be perhaps the more ubiquitous and robust impo system, but the impo in XMF looked to be pretty user friendly.
As it is, I really don't have to unlearn anything, I'm just using Illustrator and PDF Snake right now!
Our current "RIP" system is a 2up and a joke, the imposition on it makes PDF Snake look like a pro set up.
Right now I strip up every2up/4up from film, so a 4up CTP will be a real treat.

Holy Mackerel. Model T to...well, at least a fuel-injected V6 of some sort. TBH, without knocking PREPS for a moment, if you're getting XMF, go with its own impo, IMO. Your late-page-replacement is so-o-o easy. But you have a leap ahead of you. But the full skills-set is available here... for all your needs. :laugh:

Yes, they have unlimited Client hook-up, but seeing as you've mentioned snakes...be careful what they're offering. "Impose" can mean bringing in a pre-imposed sheet...from Dyna or PREPS, and 'placing' it in position for plate output. True imposition, which you will pay for, is fully integrated and very good. But is 'per seat'. Beware! Screw as hard as you can up front to get as many 'seats' as you need. Otherwise there'll be fist-fights if there's 2 or more people in the room imposing.
Or, if $$ are tight (where aren't they), you could have an extra Mac/PC for the imposing Client...do chair swaps. Not ideal, but if you had to, that's the way I'd go. No 'Quit Tango' to dance. :rolleyes:

Also, as you're starting from new...if you're going to be on Mac; XMF Client slated for running on Snow Leopard only from sometime this month. make sure you ask the question. If I can't get that rep of yours squirming, I've failed in my mission. :laugh:

impodave · March 03, 2010, 05:49:52 PM

The dart gets a little loud once the drum begins spinning - I wouldn't want it near my impo station - here its about 30 feet away and through a door - far enough away to where the imaging noise won't bother you, but close enough to hear the good or bad alarms.... any more questions, feel free to fire away ....

impodave · March 03, 2010, 06:00:39 PM

Should've kept typing.....

First of all, it would depend on your setup. In our shop we regularly run 42 or 4/1 jobs or booklets with some pages CMYK/1 or with different sigs with 4/4 and 1/4 and 1/1 in the same booklet, on two different presses with different plate sizes and different setbacks - ones a MOFP 5color and the other is a SM74 2color. There is really no completely smooth way to do this -- either you process the job twice as two separate jobs using two separate flows, or you separate the pages/sigs into their own flows, which requires some working around regarding creep and sheet naming. There needs to be a much improved way of cataloging your saved sheet templates - right now it's just one long list. There is no provision for head to foot impo on sheetwise work.
I'm still having issues with my printer printing sigs off the sheet, but Fuji feels that's an EFI issue, not a flow issue.
If you have more questions, fire back.....

Grimace · March 04, 2010, 11:48:34 AM

Quote from: impodave on March 03, 2010, 05:49:52 PMThe dart gets a little loud once the drum begins spinning - I wouldn't want it near my impo station - here its about 30 feet away and through a door - far enough away to where the imaging noise won't bother you, but close enough to hear the good or bad alarms.... any more questions, feel free to fire away ....

Thanks for the info!
I am going to go to another shop nearby to check out their setup with the Fuji rep on Monday.

Just curious, how do you store your plates once imaged, assuming you are using the on press wash up style.
We typically have plates up to 2 weeks ready for our press, due partially to busy press, sometimes due to priority changes. I'm concerned about imaging too soon and the plate going bad prior to wash up.
Also, do you do repeat jobs, and if so, how well do the used plates store?

impodave · March 04, 2010, 12:41:43 PM

Two weeks ?? We never get away with that here

We store them flat on work surfaces in the platemaking room - place sheets of the paper that they come packed in between each plate - then write the job # and description on the top sheet and place the job ticket on top. WE started out hanging them in the pressroom, but I think the 40%-45% humidity was having a detrimental effect on the finishers protective ability. When we started storing them flat in platemaking, the problem with lots os spots in the non-image areas went away .... :grin:
By the way we're running Fuji LHPJ plates ....

frailer · March 06, 2010, 03:44:47 AM

Pardon my ignorance on this. Dart is a thermal 'setter, correct?

impodave · March 06, 2010, 01:03:17 PM

Yessir ....... :azn:

Grimace · March 08, 2010, 12:18:45 PM

Quote from: impodave on March 04, 2010, 12:41:43 PMTwo weeks ?? We never get away with that here
We store them flat on work surfaces in the platemaking room - place sheets of the paper that they come packed in between each plate - then write the job # and description on the top sheet and place the job ticket on top. WE started out hanging them in the pressroom, but I think the 40%-45% humidity was having a detrimental effect on the finishers protective ability. When we started storing them flat in platemaking, the problem with lots os spots in the non-image areas went away .... :grin:
By the way we're running Fuji LHPJ plates ....

Are you using Fuji's In-Line processor then?
I wondering if I might be able to use our existing processor with Fuji Chemistry....
I'm sure Fuji will say "no" but then they would miss a sale...
We have auditioned the Eccomax plates, and they seemed to work well with our presses.
My concern with the eccomax is the wait time I mentioned above, I like the idea of having plate fully proccesed before press for ease of set-up and all that.

You say you were getting spots on your plates though, is gumming needed for longer lead times then?

impodave · March 08, 2010, 05:06:44 PM

I don't know anything about those plates- I guess they're processless ??? We run the LHPJ plates here - they're a thermal plate, but the pressmen say they have to increase dampening to make them work. But the processor did come from Fuji, but it's not an in-line model - I believe it's built by G&J - but we have had some issues from time to time with it ...

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Considering XMF