Preps 6 integration, need scripting help!

[t-pat]

Ok, so in short I've sent this to Kodak:


***
We are trying to come up with a system to move to Preps 6 entirely.
Our situation is that we have many thousands of existing Preps 5 templates.

In particular we have a number of templates that have up to 1300 individual signatures inside the .tpl file.

We use these templates as a library for standing layouts, for envelope conversion jobs. These must be used and repeated exactly as they are, recreating them for each job is not an option.

What we would like to do is to be able to ADD to this repository, WITHOUT having to go back to Preps 5 each time we get a new layout.

Since Preps 6 does not allow multi-signature "Templates", my solution to our need to retain existing layouts and going forward ADD to our current library, using Preps 6, is as follows:

1. Split the multi-signature "Templates" files we have now into individual .tpl files, each signature as it's own .tpl file, naming the .tpl files based on the value of the "%SSiSignature" field in the code of the .tpl file.

2. Save these files in a folder within the Preps Templates folder, named appropriately, say for example /Templates/Diamond Envelope/

3. When adding new layouts, we create them in Preps 6 and save as a 1 signature template, named appropriately, within the aforementioned folder

I would like some assistance with step 1 above, or if there are other suggestions that you can offer to help us transition fully to Preps 6 while maintaining our library of templates.

Thank you.

****

So what I'm hoping for here is that one of you data or scripting geniuses can give me some help with step 1 - basically I need to take a .tpl file, search between  the blocks of text starting with "%SSiSignature:", save out individual files named by the value in red here: %SSiSignature: |SS 2pg 8out #10s 23x38| 1 6 1 1 |40_CTP|
It needs to retain the header but replace the field in the header here in red with the one from [%SSiSignature:] %SSiLayout: |Env Conversions (Forest).tpl| |Env Conversions (Forest).tpl| 1 1 792.00000 612.00000 8 ||

it's dead slow here obviously  :smiley:

[Joe]

I think that might get into some very involved scripting. About the best I can offer, when I have a lot of changes to make I use the search and replace function in TextWrangler. You don't have to have the files open and you can have it perform the search and replace on a whole folder full of files. It would not be fully automated but it is faster than trying to edit a lot of templates within Preps.

Also would it be possible to convert your .tpl files into folding patterns? Excuse me if that is a dumb question. I still haven't jumped into Preps 6 much yet.

[t-pat]

I think that might get into some very involved scripting. About the best I can offer, when I have a lot of changes to make I use the search and replace function in TextWrangler. You don't have to have the files open and you can have it perform the search and replace on a whole folder full of files. It would not be fully automated but it is faster than trying to edit a lot of templates within Preps.

Also would it be possible to convert your .tpl files into folding patterns? Excuse me if that is a dumb question. I still haven't jumped into Preps 6 much yet.

No dumb questions, just dumb Kodak support people Folding patterns are contained in an xml file that I have not really looked much at, I think it might not do what I need but I'm looking at it.

Scripting the splitting of the .tpl into many .tpl files based on the criteria seems like it should be easier than it is so far. Wish I knew my scripting!

[Joe]

It probably is for someone that is good at scripting. Which I am not. :laugh:

[t-pat]

It probably is for someone that is good at scripting. Which I am not. :laugh:

kodak's first reply:

Preps 6 does indeed allow you to use Templates with multiple signatures, so there should be no issue using your existing layouts moving forward.
Have you tried to use one of your current layouts and met with issues? If so did you want to send me one of these TPL files so I can see exactly what your files contain?

no shit sherlock.

I said (after flaming him for not actually reading my request):
Preps 6 allows you to USE existing multi signature templates.
But not to EDIT and SAVE NEW signatures into an EXISTING template, does it?

I got back:
You are correct that what you cannot do is add a new signature to this TPL file.

PREPS 5 and 6 have different intentions behind using TPL files. The intention of Preps 6 is to move away from complex TPL files with multiple signatures that you add to a JOB.
Instead the idea is that the JOB is unique - you apply a fold pattern or layout and modify it as needed by changing the sheet size or quickly adjusting a margin. The idea is to move away from needing 1000's of templates.

You can create a new multi signature template by creating a job with multiple press layouts and saving that as a template.

No shit again. That's basically what I said originally.

he said:
To split the existing TPLS
Create a new job in PREPS 6, apply the desired TPL to the Press Run by dragging it into the Press Run Area, then Save as Template under a new name
Or
Open the TPL in PREPS 5, delete the other signatures and save as,

More flame and I said:
Yes, this is the obvious answer. Since you read this so carefully, you would have noticed that we have .tpl files with THOUSANDS of signatures. Do you suggest that I sit here and do the above THOUSANDS of times?

I got back:
Unfortunately Tim there is no way within the product to automate editing of all of your TPL files.

 

I said:
Could have saved us both the time and just said that.

Seems like a simple enough scripting task to parse out the signatures from the .tpl file, which is just a postscript file basically.

I realize the PRODUCT does not do it, but someone (ahem,  KODAK) needs to offer some solution, as I know for sure we are not the only customer that has this issue.

Without some solution to this challenge, it leaves the customers with a mess of disjointed templates, or conversely makes Preps 6 a fantastic product that can't be used in real life for anyone that's used Preps 5 for years.

When printers started using Preps 5 we had no way of knowing Kodak would take this path and could not anticipate structuring our templates in a way that would work for the future releases. Seems like Kodak should have thought of that, and offered a solution. My solution is simple enough in theory, I lack the scripting knowledge to accomplish it.

[Joe]

Without some solution to this challenge, it leaves the customers with a mess of disjointed templates, or conversely makes Preps 6 a fantastic product that can't be used in real life for anyone that's used Preps 5 for years.

When printers started using Preps 5 we had no way of knowing Kodak would take this path and could not anticipate structuring our templates in a way that would work for the future releases. Seems like Kodak should have thought of that, and offered a solution. My solution is simple enough in theory, I lack the scripting knowledge to accomplish it.[/i]

I do believe I fall into this category. From my very first look at Preps 6 I said to myself, "self, you are going to have to start all over from scratch to do this thing right". And I've yet to start. Preps 5 is still working pretty darn good for what we do.

[t-pat]

Without some solution to this challenge, it leaves the customers with a mess of disjointed templates, or conversely makes Preps 6 a fantastic product that can't be used in real life for anyone that's used Preps 5 for years.

When printers started using Preps 5 we had no way of knowing Kodak would take this path and could not anticipate structuring our templates in a way that would work for the future releases. Seems like Kodak should have thought of that, and offered a solution. My solution is simple enough in theory, I lack the scripting knowledge to accomplish it.[/i]

I do believe I fall into this category. From my very first look at Preps 6 I said to myself, "self, you are going to have to start all over from scratch to do this thing right". And I've yet to start. Preps 5 is still working pretty darn good for what we do.

We'll get changed over one way or another. I have a friend that will be able to parse out these envelope sigs into templates for me eventually and then it will work for us 100%.

We'll still be able to use all our old saddle stitched templates, basically ditch the flatwork ones since it's really faster to start from scratch in 6 than to find the old template (which would probably be wrong, or not optimal, or not to my satisfaction anyway, as they were mostly built by someone with very little understanding of presswork, bindery, and all the little nuances that I would do, and not every layout works for the same size piece) it's just the envelope ones that are so oddball that we need to keep them as you can't guess wth an envelope converter wants and nested layouts are not something you can make a guess on anyway.

As new as it is, it really is a fantastic product and a huge improvement. Unfortunately, they thought they knew what was best for everyone, and didn't bother to ask enough of us.

[frailer]

There are no legacy jobs. Didn't you know that?      Everything's new in the software-release world.   :grin:

... and when I read this, I realise how straightforward most of our stuff is. We're spared the squillions of template requirements you talk about.   

[t-pat]

Escalated this issue and now Kodak has taken an interest in my request, sounds like they might actually write the script for us and other users in similar situations.

We'll see!

[Joe]

Escalated this issue and now Kodak has taken an interest in my request, sounds like they might actually write the script for us and other users in similar situations.

We'll see!

I would be shocked to see it. If you find an actual bug in one of their products you can bet you won't see the fix for at least two versions of upgrades if then. But I hope for your sake something good happens.

[t-pat]

Escalated this issue and now Kodak has taken an interest in my request, sounds like they might actually write the script for us and other users in similar situations.

We'll see!

I would be shocked to see it. If you find an actual bug in one of their products you can bet you won't see the fix for at least two versions of upgrades if then. But I hope for your sake something good happens.

It definitely won't be a fix to the program, more likely a small script inside a program they'll call a migration utility or something. I see maybe 3 hours of work for a competent programmer, or 5 hours for an incompetent one, just to bust out a little vb script or whatever they'll use to make this work.

[Joe]

Escalated this issue and now Kodak has taken an interest in my request, sounds like they might actually write the script for us and other users in similar situations.

We'll see!

I would be shocked to see it. If you find an actual bug in one of their products you can bet you won't see the fix for at least two versions of upgrades if then. But I hope for your sake something good happens.

It definitely won't be a fix to the program, more likely a small script inside a program they'll call a migration utility or something. I see maybe 3 hours of work for a competent programmer, or 5 hours for an incompetent one, just to bust out a little vb script or whatever they'll use to make this work.

I think you are underestimating how bogged down they are in corporate red tape to get anything done. It takes three vp signatures to get a roll of toilet paper changed. I would love to see it though. (The script, not the toilet paper)

[t-pat]

Escalated this issue and now Kodak has taken an interest in my request, sounds like they might actually write the script for us and other users in similar situations.

We'll see!

I would be shocked to see it. If you find an actual bug in one of their products you can bet you won't see the fix for at least two versions of upgrades if then. But I hope for your sake something good happens.

It definitely won't be a fix to the program, more likely a small script inside a program they'll call a migration utility or something. I see maybe 3 hours of work for a competent programmer, or 5 hours for an incompetent one, just to bust out a little vb script or whatever they'll use to make this work.

I think you are underestimating how bogged down they are in corporate red tape to get anything done. It takes three vp signatures to get a roll of toilet paper changed. I would love to see it though. (The script, not the toilet paper)

for $50K a year in support they ought to not only change the roll, but wipe my ass with it whether it needs it or not.

[jack]

We have the same issue, and after 1 year we are going back to Preps 5 for individual, repeat templates,
As far as Kodak is concerned here, or what they like to think, is people only use a select few templates, say A4 2UP saddlestitched etc, so therefore our problem is not a valid one!
Seriously.........

[Joe]

We have the same issue, and after 1 year we are going back to Preps 5 for individual, repeat templates,
As far as Kodak is concerned here, or what they like to think, is people only use a select few templates, say A4 2UP saddlestitched etc, so therefore our problem is not a valid one!
Seriously.........

I've heard that before too for the amount of templates we use. Kodak doesn't understand why we have so many. Different kinds of presses, different cutoffs, different sizes of paper, different folds, different binding, different trimming, etc...it all adds up to a butt load of templates. Something Preps 6 surely was not designed for.