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Topic: Vector Trap module issue (Read 1356 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • DHG
  • [*][*]
Vector Trap module issue
We don't have any tech support for this so hoping you guys can help. We have been using 4-stage trapping forever without any issue or problem from the customer. Recently though the company that we do this work for reorganized and now we are dealing with different people for the same exact work. The new people we are dealing with do not like the way that the files are trapped. The traps aren't "wrong" they just don't like the way they look when you zoom in on them at 2000% (ugh, see attached image).  So, I have been playing around with the settings within the trap module. My choices are 4-stage, Packaging, or Commercial. I have tried all sorts of different settings within each choice. Not having much luck. The original files are all created in Illustrator (usually CS5, but sometimes 6). 4-stage will put a Trap layer in the Artpro file which is absolutely needed, where as I cannot get the other 2 to generate a trap layer. Packaging and Commercial will put trap in the file, but seem to do it on the first unlocked layer in the illustrator file. I thought a workaround may be to put an empty unlocked layer in .ai file and rename that layer in Artpro, but the traps are inconsistent. The trap it is putting on would be acceptable, but like I said, it's inconsistent and not trapping all the areas it should be. We could trap manually, but the volume is sometimes pretty high and would be too time consuming. We are using Artpro 8.1 and running Nexus 9.0.3. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Also, just for my education, maybe someone could explain what exactly 4-stage trapping is vs Packaging. The manuals that were left to me don't say sh*t.

Thanks.

  • DigiCorn
  • [*][*][*]
  • A legend in my own mind
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #1
Can't explain 4-stage trapping, because I just don't know... but clearly it can be seen from the image that it is choking in some spots, and spreading in the rest. It looks like this is occurring when the transition is from a darker background image to a lighter background image. Not familiar with Nexus, (we use Rampage), but in the old Trapwise we used to turn off trapping when an image built with 3 colors met another image with 3 colors; the theory being that there were "enough colors in common there would be no gap." If this is an option for you, then I can recommend that this solution will work.

One other workaround is this: set a 3 mil stroke around the object to be trapped, and set the stroke to overprint. Then, turn trapping off and let the stroke overprint to create a phony trap.
"Why is it that everything today has involved things either going in or coming out of my ass?!"
― Eric Cartman

"Oh My God! They Killed Kenny!"
- Stan Marsh

"You Bastards!"
-Kyle Broflovski

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

  • DHG
  • [*][*]
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #2
Thanks for the reply. The trap is doing what it's supposed to do because it is color based, thus the choking in some spots and spreading in the rest. It's just that the customer (not the printer, BTW) finds it objectionable. Doing the trapping in illustrator is the way we used to do it years ago for simple jobs, but these are way too complex to do that.

Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #3
Hi DHG,

So what is the reason the customer is looking at the trapped file? Is it for proofing purposes? Are they trying to repurpose the file for another use?

If the file is used for proofing and it prints correctly, then maybe the customer needs further education. If they plan on repurposing the file, they shouldn't be using a trapped file.

Greg
_______________
Technical Project Manager
OneVision Software

  • DHG
  • [*][*]
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #4
Hey Greg- you are preaching to the choir on this one. They are looking at the trapped files as part of their QC process. Part of the problem is they are familiar with flexo, not so much with offset sheetfed. The printer that the files go to requires trapped files.

Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #5
DHG,

Ahhhh... understood. It doesn't matter that "this is the way we've always done it" and the results have been acceptable.

Have you been in touch with the offset printer at all? Are they open to you changing the trapping? I imagine it may impact their workflow as well.

Greg
_______________
Technical Project Manager
OneVision Software

  • DHG
  • [*][*]
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #6
Greg- Yes we are in touch with the printer.  Even though the printer knows they will print OK, they ultimately are at the mercy of this customer as well.

  • david
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
  • WTF?
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #7
and we all know the customer is always right...

too bad they don't know what they are talking about.
Prepress guy - doin' jobs one at a time

  • DHG
  • [*][*]
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #8

and we all know the customer is always right...

too bad they don't know what they are talking about.


Quoted for truth...

  • andyfest
  • [*]
  • Know your role and shut your hole...
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #9

We don't have any tech support for this so hoping you guys can help. We have been using 4-stage trapping forever without any issue or problem from the customer. Recently though the company that we do this work for reorganized and now we are dealing with different people for the same exact work. The new people we are dealing with do not like the way that the files are trapped. The traps aren't "wrong" they just don't like the way they look when you zoom in on them at 2000% (ugh, see attached image).  So, I have been playing around with the settings within the trap module. My choices are 4-stage, Packaging, or Commercial. I have tried all sorts of different settings within each choice. Not having much luck. The original files are all created in Illustrator (usually CS5, but sometimes 6). 4-stage will put a Trap layer in the Artpro file which is absolutely needed, where as I cannot get the other 2 to generate a trap layer. Packaging and Commercial will put trap in the file, but seem to do it on the first unlocked layer in the illustrator file. I thought a workaround may be to put an empty unlocked layer in .ai file and rename that layer in Artpro, but the traps are inconsistent. The trap it is putting on would be acceptable, but like I said, it's inconsistent and not trapping all the areas it should be. We could trap manually, but the volume is sometimes pretty high and would be too time consuming. We are using Artpro 8.1 and running Nexus 9.0.3. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Also, just for my education, maybe someone could explain what exactly 4-stage trapping is vs Packaging. The manuals that were left to me don't say sh*t.

Thanks.
Yeah we've been there. Nexus v9x did some funky stuff with the vector trapper, but since we updated to v10.1.1 some of the trapping issues have gone away. Although we are in packaging, we have found the 4 stage trapper gives us the most consistent results. Here's a screenshot of our settings. They interface may be somewhat diff than v9, but I can't remember. Also, try reducing your trap width - the printer will have to register more accurately, but it may present a more acceptable file to your client.
imac & Mac Pros on OSX 10.8.5/Adobe CC2014/Nexus Classic & PDF RIP v10.1.3 on 10.5.6 Mac XServe/Oris ColorTuner RIP w Epson 9900/Fuji_Luxel_T9000

  • DHG
  • [*][*]
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #10
Thanks Andyfest. Yes, those settings are a lot different then the version we are running. Bosses may have to finally bite the bullet and upgrade to v10. Maybe they have a demo version available (doubtful). As far as the size of the traps, they require .005". Pretty bulky, but that's what they want.

  • andyfest
  • [*]
  • Know your role and shut your hole...
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #11
I take it that you don't have a service contract with Esko? If you do, all updates are free. If you don't, I would even see if you could update your v9.0 to 9.5.8, or see how much Esko would want to upgrade to v10. Nexus v9.5.8 was really stable, but still the trapping didn't improve substantially until v10.
imac & Mac Pros on OSX 10.8.5/Adobe CC2014/Nexus Classic & PDF RIP v10.1.3 on 10.5.6 Mac XServe/Oris ColorTuner RIP w Epson 9900/Fuji_Luxel_T9000

  • DHG
  • [*][*]
Re: Vector Trap module issue
Reply #12

I take it that you don't have a service contract with Esko? If you do, all updates are free. If you don't, I would even see if you could update your v9.0 to 9.5.8, or see how much Esko would want to upgrade to v10. Nexus v9.5.8 was really stable, but still the trapping didn't improve substantially until v10.


Thanks. No service contract is correct. We actually have the next version up of v9 here, but we found it to be very unstable.

After a lot of messing around (waisting my day to be more precise) I may have found a solution for now. Look of the trap was improved greatly with Detect Small Gaps and Vectorize Opacity Masks deselected in the Specials tab.