Xerox XC1000i vs RicohC9110 vs ?

Started by SaintCastle, July 01, 2016, 08:44:12 PM

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SaintCastle

July 01, 2016, 08:44:12 PM
Hi guys,

The company I work for is planning to get a new digital press (because we have a Nexpress already) and we are really undecided in which way to go next. As far as cost, everything seems to be very similar.
Now, I would like to hear from other users, what digital press seems to best fit to our needs, as follow: reliable (above all), good color capability (being able to hold calibration for long runs VERY IMPORTANT, color accuracy is a must), handle stocks from 60lbs all the way up to 14pt, good registration front/back, good printing quality for solids and gradients as well, etc.
For now, from all proposal we got so far, we are undecided between an Xerox XC1000i or a RicohC9110, any other suggest?
Not sales speech please.
Thank you.

DigiCorn

#1
July 01, 2016, 09:01:19 PM
Not factoring in machines at all, we had the worst service from Xerox, and the best service from Gestetner (parent company is Ricoh). Our Xerox, even when calibrated, could never hold color. If you had an exact reprint, you'd never even be in the same ballpark trying to match color. We had much better luck with Canon for color. I only used Gestetner for Black and White, but based purely on service, Xerox sucked.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

SaintCastle

#2
July 03, 2016, 02:12:23 PM
Hi DigiCorn,

What model of Xerox was it? Also, what Canon you have(had)?
The Xerox XC1000i comes with built in calibration (FWA), does it make any difference?
And thank you for the info :)

Slappy

#3
July 03, 2016, 05:39:57 PM
We run an XC1000, maybe 5-6 years now and it's passable for color accuracy, given that you have decent operators. Screens & gradients - again, with people who know how to run the machines & manage consumables properly.

The high marks you're setting seem more reasonable for an iGen on HP Indigo though. Higher operating costs perhaps but you get what you pay for this in this area, like most. Can't say anything about Ricohs, etc. since I haven't been any place that's run them.
A little diddie 'bout black 'n cyan...two reflective colors doin' the best they can.

wonderings

#4
July 04, 2016, 02:14:27 PM
Service will really depend on your area, some places have good guys, others not so good. We had a terrible time with our last Xerox, a J75. Colour was terrible and could never be reproduced even when calibrated. We replaced it with a Versant 2100 which has been a rock solid machine for the last year. A job I printed a year ago, I reprint now and will be so close to the old copy that it is not even worth tweaking.

You really need to do some test jobs on both machines, like real live jobs. We have done that with every Xerox we have bought and Xerox has always been good about letting us run some tough jobs for us colour wise or registration wise. Gave us a very good idea of what it could and could not do.

delooch

#5
July 05, 2016, 09:17:36 AM
we just downgraded from a Canon imagepress c6000 to a Ricoh c7110s.  Not the same class of machine by far, but its OK for what we do.  Only real complaint is that its hit-and-miss running carbonless stock.  We run Appleton Superior, though none of the techs could get it to feed, they made us switch brands to "relyco" which did run, but is very limited on stock selection.

Then one day, it suddenly ran the Appleton with no issue. Then the following week it did not.  Its a very picky machine as far as different substrates go, but like women,, once you figure out its quirks and start sweet-talking her, shes more apt to put out..  er, i mean output...

Slappy

#6
July 05, 2016, 10:32:41 AM
Quote from: wonderings on July 04, 2016, 02:14:27 PMService will really depend on your area, some places have good guys, others not so good.

You really need to do some test jobs on both machines, like real live jobs. We have done that with every Xerox we have bought and Xerox has always been good about letting us run some tough jobs for us colour wise or registration wise. Gave us a very good idea of what it could and could not do.

Both of these things!! We have pretty good service here, even if the main Xerox tech that's here a lot has kind of a stick up his ass, he knows his stuff and keeps us running.
A little diddie 'bout black 'n cyan...two reflective colors doin' the best they can.

DigiCorn

#7
July 05, 2016, 04:54:19 PM
We had a Canon iR110 (K) and an iP6000vp (color). Our Xerox was a 2060, but I have also run a 7000 which is basically the same thing. One of our Xerox techs was stellar; the rest was a crap shoot. They were constantly trying to upsell us... eventually we relented and got the iP6000vp, primarily to get rid of Xerox support.

Once the credit card expired, and a new one was reported to Xerox for monthly billing. You wouldn't believe the amount of phone calls Xerox made about the expired card; probably averaged over a dozen a day for several months. It was miserable. And it wasn't even an issue.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

SaintCastle

#8
July 05, 2016, 08:33:26 PM
Does anybody know how good or bad the FWA actually helps on the calibration and color consistency (Xerox XC1000i)?!
Also, I heard that you have to calibrate every media, EVERYDAY, before running it on the Ricoh C9110, is it true?!
Does this calibration media procedure applies to other digital presses as well?
Thank you guys for all the comments so far :)

wonderings

#9
July 06, 2016, 08:01:45 AM
Quote from: SaintCastle on July 05, 2016, 08:33:26 PMDoes anybody know how good or bad the FWA actually helps on the calibration and color consistency (Xerox XC1000i)?!
Also, I heard that you have to calibrate every media, EVERYDAY, before running it on the Ricoh C9110, is it true?!
Does this calibration media procedure applies to other digital presses as well?
Thank you guys for all the comments so far :)

We have the full width array, makes life very easy for calibrating as well as for alignment. I calibrate at least once a day, but it depends on what I am running. Before a job in the morning I will calibrate. In the afternoon if I have a job that has spots that need to match the last time I will calibrate again. I probably over do it, but I have so few headaches now with colour and matching a previously printed job that I think it is worth it.

Again, the FWA is used for more then just colour calibration, at least on our Versant 2100. It is used for density alignment, colour calibration and stock alignment.

SaintCastle

#10
July 15, 2016, 05:44:17 PM
And the struggle continues. More we read, more we feel that everything is pretty much lining up at the same level (cost, capabilities, quality, etc).
Even different proposals for the workflow seems to be just different tools with the same capabilities.
Going for the leap of faith.    Speak now or forever hold your peace 

wonderings

#11
July 18, 2016, 06:45:57 AM
Have you spoken to others using either machine in the area or at least similar models to get an idea on service? A big question to ask is about the service, you will be calling them in at some point and would be a good thing to know from others in your area how they find service. Good service makes all the difference in the world, if you are stuck with a team that will always blame the stock and does not understand that when you are down you are losing money, well it can be a nightmare.

Farabomb

#12
July 18, 2016, 07:00:09 AM
 :goodpost:

This is quite important. I have a friend that repairs copiers and out of 20 or so that work there, maybe 5 are experts. The rest vary from decent to pitiful.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear on April 06, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on April 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AMIt's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin
My other job

wonderings

#13
July 18, 2016, 08:26:59 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on July 18, 2016, 07:00:09 AM:goodpost:

This is quite important. I have a friend that repairs copiers and out of 20 or so that work there, maybe 5 are experts. The rest vary from decent to pitiful.

We have had some nightmares with Xerox, mostly with our last machine a J75 that was a total dud. If it was not for service we most likely would have gone to another machine, or would have at least given it much more thought and consideration.
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