Funny how after 15 years on the trade,my first question on a prepress forum is not about print...
So after trying to get into packaging-without much success-,while watching the printshop i work for declining day by day,I decided i should give it a try with ''the web''.
I see-mostly read about to be honest- a lot of former prepress operators moving on that way-even here there is a section about web design/development.
Problem is i wouldn't know how or where to start.
I'm not a designer.
I can design a leaflet,or a poster,i can even draw-pencil or wacom- but this is not my job.
I don't code.
I troubleshoot software and hardware problems on the shop,but i'm not a programmer.
Plus there isn't any web related activity where i work- except from fb but i don't have an account :azn:
So,if you're kind enough,how did you get there?
-from prepress to ''the web''-
Where a prepress employee could be good at a web oriented business?
Design ? Development ?Cleaning the dust from the servers?
And why a company wouldn't hire a designer,or a developer on the first place and choose an ex-prepress operator?
Any answers given-even those not asked- will be held of great value,along with maybe where and what to start reading/practicing on...
Thanks in advance!
I would start taking a class, there are lots of free classes
in my area, prolly yours too.
Oops, I didn't even know this section existed. Hanging out in The Bar too much.
Sorry to say, motormount, you're kind of doomed like a lot of us are. You can get into web dev (two of here are into it, myself and Joe) but you'll probably hate it more than prepress. There's A LOT to learn, it is forever changing, and the industry is populated with douchebags who just live for the internet 24/7. You sound older, and you probably won't like it.
Boss just asked me to build a website yesterday. It felt like a demotion. But whatever floats your boat. Take classes or I'm sure you can find basic online tutorials to start.
I did this in college as it was part of my multimedia degree. It was the only part I didn't like.
Quote from: Skryber on September 19, 2013, 02:04:15 PMBoss just asked me to build a website yesterday.
I love how "they" just assume because you do graphics that you can build an entire website. Most people with a brain can probably pull off a Wordpress install, but that's only Step 1 and there are about 87 other steps after that. Wait til the site gets hacked and you have to start all over again.
Quote from: Skryber on September 19, 2013, 02:04:15 PMTake classes or I'm sure you can find basic online tutorials to start.
It doesn't need to cost anything to learn the basics. Both Joe & I are self taught. Go through the online tutorials until you have the basic knowledge of HTML & CSS and how websites even work. You also need to learn about hosting, browser compatibility, hacks, security, domains, etc.
Rumor has it most jumpers off Golden Gate are former web designers who just couldn't take it anymore. You are better off becoming a truck driver or a farmer.
Quote from: gnubler on September 19, 2013, 01:59:29 PMYou sound older, and you probably won't like it.
More than sincerity,i like quick answers-what time is it in the states btw?-
I'm only forty,i consider myself a quick learner-who doesn't :-P - but i'm really not like 24/7 on the net-got four kids a bicycle and a trashed bike to take care of -
Then since prepress-as we know it- will soon be as necessary as ''letterpress''-they rime too-,i think i can lower my expectations...
ps do you need verification for every post?
ps2 What is the name of Adobe's Page Layout application?
It is between 11:40 and 4:40 depending which part of US
Adobe Indesign
I would start here:
http://www.htmldog.com (http://www.htmldog.com)
I'm not a coder or a designer by any means but I do edit a few .html, .css, and .php files and occasionally a MySQL database. I like to start with software like either Joomla for complex sites or Wordpress for more basic sites. Both are free and to get started you can use one of the free web hosting sites to install into and get your feet wet. But as gnub says there is lots more to do than just installing but most of it requires little or no coding and a little design.
No, you only have to do the verification for the first 5 or 10 posts. I forget which but it isn't many. The Adobe Page Layout app it asks about is InDesign.
Quote from: born2print on September 19, 2013, 02:38:49 PMIt is between 11:40 and 4:40 depending which part of US
Adobe Indesign
lol,it won't accept pagemaker-neither are we come to think of it-
What Joe said. htmldog is good, I have used it. There are a million resources online. W3C Schools is the big one. I also bought a few tutorial books to help with learning advanced CSS, but that was about 10 years ago when people still used books.
A couple years ago I looked at the offerings at my local community college for "web design", just out of curiousity. Steer clear of anything that mentions "Dreamweaver" or similar "design a website" program. They are absolutely useless in modern web development. As Joe said, Joomla and Wordpress are both free installs and will allow you to build any type of website. Once you get into add-ons and extensions is when things go wrong. Shit, things usually go wrong even during the initial install.
Don't do it!
Quote from: Joe on September 19, 2013, 02:40:24 PMI would start here:
http://www.htmldog.com (http://www.htmldog.com)
I'm not a coder or a designer by any means but I do edit a few .html, .css, and .php files and occasionally a MySQL database. I like to start with software like either Joomla for complex sites or Wordpress for more basic sites. Both are free and to get started you can use one of the free web hosting sites to install into and get your feet wet. But as gnub says there is lots more to do than just installing but most of it requires little or no coding and a little design.
No, you only have to do the verification for the first 5 or 10 posts. I forget which but it isn't many. The Adobe Page Layout app it asks about is InDesign.
Thanks Joe!
-just kidding about the second question,i 'll check the htmldog(!!!) site tommorow!-
Thanks all for answering! :smiley:
Welcome Motormount! :hello:
We're all in the same shitty sinking ship. Printing is drying up and management seems to think just because you can make print files work you can do anything computer related. :shoots_self:
A beginner's cheatsheet for web development: http://www.bentobox.io/ (http://www.bentobox.io/)
Thanks dub! bookmarked :goodpost:
Thanks for both links 'n answers!
After having a look on those sites,and having ''made'' a site on wix,i think that a trucker career is much more possible.
Not just for me but for experienced designers and developers as well,with so many templates and wysiwyg tools,they'll become obsolete sooner than us...
-so i'd better start hanging out on web designers forums to find out where they 're heading... :tongue: -
Quote from: motormount on September 21, 2013, 11:57:48 AMThanks for both links 'n answers!
After having a look on those sites,and having ''made'' a site on wix,i think that a trucker career is much more possible.
Not just for me but for experienced designers and developers as well,with so many templates and wysiwyg tools,they'll become obsolete sooner than us...
-so i'd better start hanging out on web designers forums to find out where they 're heading... :tongue: -
Let us know when you find out, maybe we can beat them to it.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/19/article-2424935-1BE7B418000005DC-325_634x357.jpg)
Food service.
Food prep, yes. Service, no thx!
Food prep is possibly worse than prepress and even more thankless. Do not believe all the bullshit on TV. You want no part of that.
my wife sells thrifted and picked items on ebay. Specializes in handbags, which she reconditions and repairs or has repaired if needed. Also other vintage items, particularly housewares. She likes it and it makes a profit. Not huge, but worth doing - and she's got limited physical abilities. If she was well, and worked it full time, it could be a living wage if you have a simple lifestyle.
Quote from: t-pat on September 23, 2013, 11:52:31 AMmy wife sells thrifted and picked items on ebay. Specializes in handbags, which she reconditions and repairs or has repaired if needed. Also other vintage items, particularly housewares. She likes it and it makes a profit. Not huge, but worth doing - and she's got limited physical abilities. If she was well, and worked it full time, it could be a living wage if you have a simple lifestyle.
Do you have to have a credit card to sell on ebay? I've thought about the old fashioned ebay: setting up a booth at the flea market on Saturdays to try selling all the treasures found during the week.
My brother manages an apartment complex. He makes a few hundred a month selling the old Water heaters, A/C units, etc. for scrap. He's always looking for motors, wires, etc. on garbage day.
He says if he really focused on it, he could make more.
Quote from: gnubler on September 23, 2013, 12:03:51 PMQuote from: t-pat on September 23, 2013, 11:52:31 AMmy wife sells thrifted and picked items on ebay. Specializes in handbags, which she reconditions and repairs or has repaired if needed. Also other vintage items, particularly housewares. She likes it and it makes a profit. Not huge, but worth doing - and she's got limited physical abilities. If she was well, and worked it full time, it could be a living wage if you have a simple lifestyle.
Do you have to have a credit card to sell on ebay? I've thought about the old fashioned ebay: setting up a booth at the flea market on Saturdays to try selling all the treasures found during the week.
Folks that shop flea markets and swap meets pay bottom dollar. Twits that stumble on your merch at eBay get in bidding wars and pay retail or more.
:shrug:
My wife loves flowers and plants and started a gardening service a few years ago. Most of her clients are seniors that love their gardens, but aren't mobile enough to take care of them properly. Up here it's pretty seasonal and work is only possible from April to October, but down there it could be a year-round business. She wants to keep it small and works by herself - turns down at least 10 clients every year that she just doesn't have time for.
Quote from: gnubler on September 23, 2013, 12:03:51 PMQuote from: t-pat on September 23, 2013, 11:52:31 AMmy wife sells thrifted and picked items on ebay. Specializes in handbags, which she reconditions and repairs or has repaired if needed. Also other vintage items, particularly housewares. She likes it and it makes a profit. Not huge, but worth doing - and she's got limited physical abilities. If she was well, and worked it full time, it could be a living wage if you have a simple lifestyle.
Do you have to have a credit card to sell on ebay? I've thought about the old fashioned ebay: setting up a booth at the flea market on Saturdays to try selling all the treasures found during the week.
You need a card number or bank account to get paid and pay your ebay fees. There are a number of online banks that are very easy to set up prepaid with minimal opening deposits, and bad credit is ok. She also sells on Etsy, which is a good venue with some different rules and requirements.
Honestly though if you sold in person at a flea market or other venues, you'd do better and have less customer issues. Her biggest problem is idiots that buy on their phone without reading descriptions or looking at the 25+ high res semi professionally shot (home photo studio with SLR and lights, styled, and measured) pictures she takes of the more expensive items.
Quote from: andyfest on September 23, 2013, 12:16:02 PMMy wife loves flowers and plants and started a gardening service a few years ago. Most of her clients are seniors that love their gardens, but aren't mobile enough to take care of them properly. Up here it's pretty seasonal and work is only possible from April to October, but down there it could be a year-round business. She wants to keep it small and works by herself - turns down at least 10 clients every year that she just doesn't have time for.
That is something else I thought about doing: help people get a raised bed garden going. I could build custom raised beds to fit any size yard or need, bring in the soil, and help them get started. The problem is that involves talking to people and doing "sales", neither of which I'm good at.
You could sell yourself
http://www.newser.com/story/174722/blackberry-sells-itself-for-47b.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=united&utm_campaign=rss_top (http://www.newser.com/story/174722/blackberry-sells-itself-for-47b.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=united&utm_campaign=rss_top)
...and the Black Market is always looking for spare kidneys. That'd set you up for a year or two.
Quote from: born2print on September 23, 2013, 12:53:12 PMYou could sell yourself
Wouldn't that require her to move to Nevada? :laugh:
That man looks like an alien. I put on the glasses and he was one of Them™!
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnROf8wPxBRmAVcm1invNHHB8vxUe9HBK4IIbeNdv6KHzkzKUpJQ)
I have come to kick ass and chew bubblegum...
How far back do you guys list employment on your resume?
1 job...
but I've been here for 30 years
Mine goes back about 12 years. But I was at my last job for over 7 years. Then I have an abbreviated list of jobs before that.
i have every employer on there that has related experience to what im applying for, even if its ancient history.
Quote from: david on September 24, 2013, 11:25:09 AM1 job...
but I've been here for 30 years
:laugh: Unheard of! If I go that far back, I should probably omit "shitting in diapers" in my skills list.
Quote from: delooch on September 24, 2013, 11:33:55 AMi have every employer on there that has related experience to what im applying for, even if its ancient history.
That's pretty much what I do. I've had so many jobs I'm trying to figure out if some of them should just "unexist".
I go back to 1450 when I was doing prepress for Johannes.
You & david both, apparently.
I found a typo in your bible, dude.
id consider that some employers would prefer to see a stable work history. Not that i have one, but there was a period where i cycled jobs for a few years until i could find one that i could tolerate. Those i leave off. NO ONE is going to remember who did what 10-15 years ago, so i fudge the dates to cover the gaps.
it works for me, but im "job search lazy" and dont actively look for new opportunity. i guess things are still "tolerable" at the current shop.
Quote from: gnubler on September 24, 2013, 11:44:53 AMYou & david both, apparently.
I found a typo in your bible, dude.
Dude, I'm prepress...not a damn proof reader. Talk to the author! :angry:
I saw one of the characters at a restaurant yesterday, his nametag said "Jesus". :laugh: You probably have a couple in your bindery by now.
Quote from: delooch on September 24, 2013, 11:45:27 AMNO ONE is going to remember who did what 10-15 years ago, so i fudge the dates to cover the gaps.
And seeing as these are all printing jobs, at least 3 of the shops where I worked no longer exist. Let the fudging begin.
Quote from: gnubler on September 24, 2013, 11:49:21 AMI saw one of the characters at a restaurant yesterday, his nametag said "Jesus". :laugh: You probably have a couple in your bindery by now.
Not us. Most of the Mexicans fled when the company required bank accounts for direct deposit. Still have a couple of pressman but no bindery workers.
Oh yeah. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I remember you saying it was a mass exodus of quitters.
How can a person get hired for a job here but can't get a bank account?
Quote from: gnubler on September 24, 2013, 11:53:44 AMOh yeah. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I remember you saying it was a mass exodus of quitters.
How can a person get hired for a job here but can't get a bank account?
I guess the banks are more strict on documentation than employers.
Quote from: gnubler on September 24, 2013, 11:50:53 AMQuote from: delooch on September 24, 2013, 11:45:27 AMNO ONE is going to remember who did what 10-15 years ago, so i fudge the dates to cover the gaps.
And seeing as these are all printing jobs, at least 3 of the shops where I worked no longer exist. Let the fudging begin.
Three of my former bosses are dead, let's see you ask them some questions. (No, I had nothing to do with it, honest.)
Quote from: Joe on September 24, 2013, 11:58:44 AMQuote from: gnubler on September 24, 2013, 11:53:44 AMOh yeah. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I remember you saying it was a mass exodus of quitters.
How can a person get hired for a job here but can't get a bank account?
I guess the banks are more strict on documentation than employers.
yeah, maybe now.
Quote from: Possum on September 24, 2013, 12:06:22 PMThree of my former bosses are dead,
Lucky you. I have fantasized about that quite often.
Quote from: delooch on September 24, 2013, 11:45:27 AMid consider that some employers would prefer to see a stable work history. Not that i have one, but there was a period where i cycled jobs for a few years until i could find one that i could tolerate. Those i leave off. NO ONE is going to remember who did what 10-15 years ago, so i fudge the dates to cover the gaps.
I'll agree,but if you're searching for work in your hometown,and already changed 3/4 shops,most probably you will run into conversations about old acquaintances and numbers just won't fit!
On the other hand,i don't think many employers will remember what your cv said after they hire you...
I do what delooch does. All but one of my previous companies is no longer in business, and it has new owners.
"Freelance workflow consultant" fills in blanks and short time jobs nicely.
Thank you. I just un-became a job hopper. :kiss:
Still updating my resume...
In looking online on what not to include in a resume I saw these items listed:
Unrelated Hobbies
Salary History
I typically include both of those. I don't see a problem listing my salaries for each job because I think it's a good indicator of one's skill level and can help a potential employer determine if I'm what they're looking for. Am I wrong? I also include unrelated hobbies, with a touch of humor thrown in. Every interview I go to, it's noticed and mentioned, and usually helps to break the ice and start a conversation.
"Industry references available upon request"
If you're looking to fill out the page, hobbies are good. Shows that you're a human being and have independent thought. Sometimes they aren't looking for that, and if that's the case you don't want to be there.
My 2nd interview with this new company was with my new direct supervisor. We talked for 90 minutes, 10 of that was work related, the other 80 was about cars, which he's into too.Needless to say, this probably helped develop a connection.
The current job, I listed working on cars, and the guy who hired me (now gone) builds rock crawler buggies out of Land Rovers, and is an amateur machinist as a hobby, so that was a good bonding point.
Quote from: gnubler on September 25, 2013, 10:36:37 AMStill updating my resume...
In looking online on what not to include in a resume I saw these items listed:
Unrelated Hobbies
Salary History
I typically include both of those. I don't see a problem listing my salaries for each job because I think it's a good indicator of one's skill level and can help a potential employer determine if I'm what they're looking for. Am I wrong? I also include unrelated hobbies, with a touch of humor thrown in. Every interview I go to, it's noticed and mentioned, and usually helps to break the ice and start a conversation.
I don't like listing salary history and don't unless they push it and if they push it I at least think they are serious about hiring me.
And unrelated hobbies? :wtf: So you have prepress related hobbies? Spending the weekend watching files rip?
Quote from: t-pat on September 25, 2013, 10:48:04 AMShows that you're a human being and have independent thought...We talked for 90 minutes, 10 of that was work related, the other 80 was about cars, which he's into too.
That's what I mean. I put the "hobbies" list at the very end so it can just be ignored if so desired. I have motorcycles in my list of hobbies and it's spawned some friendly chatter at interviews.
And more than motorcycles, 'homebrewing' has started conversations. In the printing world, beer brings us all together. :laugh:
Quote from: Joe on September 25, 2013, 10:56:42 AMSo you have prepress related hobbies? Spending the weekend watching files rip?
Sometimes I like to spend a Saturday afternoon designing a brochure in Publisher, just for fun.
You are a masochist.
Everyone here is, if they keep doing this day after day by choice.
Quote from: gnubler on September 25, 2013, 10:59:40 AMQuote from: Joe on September 25, 2013, 10:56:42 AMSo you have prepress related hobbies? Spending the weekend watching files rip?
Sometimes I like to spend a Saturday afternoon designing a brochure in Publisher, just for fun.
You thicko!
I also like designing web pages straight out of quark. Helps keep me current with industry technologies and broadens my skill set.
Well yes, why would anyone use anything other than Quark for web design? :ohno:
Like Apple, it just works.
Quote from: Joe on September 25, 2013, 10:56:42 AMQuote from: gnubler on September 25, 2013, 10:36:37 AMStill updating my resume...
In looking online on what not to include in a resume I saw these items listed:
Unrelated Hobbies
Salary History
I typically include both of those. I don't see a problem listing my salaries for each job because I think it's a good indicator of one's skill level and can help a potential employer determine if I'm what they're looking for. Am I wrong? I also include unrelated hobbies, with a touch of humor thrown in. Every interview I go to, it's noticed and mentioned, and usually helps to break the ice and start a conversation.
I don't like listing salary history and don't unless they push it and if they push it I at least think they are serious about hiring me.
And unrelated hobbies? :wtf: So you have prepress related hobbies? Spending the weekend watching files rip?
I don't like listing salary history on a resume either. I'd like to leave that open for discussion during an interview. If they think you're too expensive at first glance, you won't even get an interview. If you were gypped at previous jobs (like that never happens), they may think (know) you work cheap and offer you less than they would have just seeing your qualifications.
Good points, and I had already taken them off my resume before Possum posted that.
Hobbies: Ninja Warlord
hobbies: drinking margaritas
I'll do it for 1 dollar an hour...
I did include beer in my list of hobbies, listed as "sampling craft homebrews" or something like that. :laugh: