creep

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Talk to Uncle DCS, Joe. Where are you confused?

I'll get back to you later. Leaving for work right now.

I'll be here... I think.

[Tracy]

We get these too, if you put in creep to keep the outer elements from pushing out, the crossovers are ruined. Usually we are able to go 0 creep and let the bars suffer a little. If the book was too big to ignore creep, we would prolly move the bars manually and still apply 0 creep.

yeah the book shouldnt require creep on this one, i agree the bars should have been moved manually, were going to let it go.
my coworker left the job on the desktop. the day after he was let go the computer crashed. i always said never leave on the desktop! ionly have the postscript files on the brisque. this is a rerun job from a press error.

Coincidence?  I think not!

dont get me started! tee hee

[gnubler]

What's funny is, reading through this, I find it to be an interesting discussion. But to someone who stumbled upon this thread and didn't know much about printing you would all sound like a big bunch of NERDS! Are prepressers considered nerds?

[Tracy]

i think so, cool ones tho!

[Joe]

Okay, my memory is not too good. We use positive numbers for the inner pages also as others have said.

The way I understand how creep works in Preps is the inner number moves the pages closest to the center of the book the most and the distance decreases as it moves closer to the outside of the book. So if you enter .0625" into 'inner" then pages 52 & 53 in your example will move .0625" towards the spine. 51 & 54 will move a little less etc...when it gets to the halfway point, pages 27 & 78, the pages will be moving half the distance of your original number which is .03125 or 1/32". By the time it reaches pages 1 and 104 the number will be zero and those two pages will not move at all. This is how I've been doing creep.

Now if you enter in -.0625 in the outer pages it will move the outer pages, starting at pages 1 & 104 away from the spine 1/16". Pages 2 & 103 would be a little less etc...when it gets to the halfway point, pages 27 & 78, the pages will be moving half the distance of your original number which is .03125 or 1/32" away from the spine.

Now in the above example pages 27 & 78 got moved into the gutter 1/32" by the inner number and then it was moved back out 1/32" by the outer number thereby canceling each other out at the halfway mark to the middle of the book, which is pages 27 & 78. I just tried this on a test job using 1" creep so I could plainly see the creep in the Preps preview. If I enter in 1" for the inner and -1" for the outer I get the outer 2 pages (P1 & 104) moving away from the spine 1" and the inner two pages (P52 & 53) moving towards the spine 1". Pages 27 & 78 get no shingling at all and my Preps preview confirms this. The Preps manual basically explains it the same way that I have here.

If I'm missing something let me know.

[Tracy]

you would need bleed on the inside to do that. how would  you do that with facing pages?

[Joe]

I just made up boxes (Cyan 100% for the RHP and Magenta 100% for the LHP) that do not bleed off the page. Unshingled they have 3/8" of white from the box to the trim. Applying large amounts of creep to test you can see when the pages overlap. In the above example with .5 for the inner and -.5 for the outer pages 27 & 78 came out with the 3/8" white space just like it did with no shingling.

[tapdn]

That's pretty much the way I understand it Joe. Fact I did the very same test as you when I was just starting to teach myself Preps and creep.

[Joe]

That's pretty much the way I understand it Joe. Fact I did the very same test as you when I was just starting to teach myself Preps and creep.

So...uhhhh...the pages halfway (pages 27 & 78 in this example) between the outer most and inner most pages are not supposed to get any creep? I just don't think that is correct.

[DCurry]

yeah the book shouldnt require creep on this one, i agree the bars should have been moved manually, were going to let it go.
my coworker left the job on the desktop. the day after he was let go the computer crashed. i always said never leave on the desktop! ionly have the postscript files on the brisque. this is a rerun job from a press error.

You could still move the bars manually if you distill your postscript into a PDF and then use PitStop to move the offending bars.

[tapdn]

That's pretty much the way I understand it Joe. Fact I did the very same test as you when I was just starting to teach myself Preps and creep.

So...uhhhh...the pages halfway (pages 27 & 78 in this example) between the outer most and inner most pages are not supposed to get any creep? I just don't think that is correct.

Why not? Why would they need to?

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Right on the money Joe. The objective is to keep the face trim equal. The outer pages need to move AWAY from the spine, the inner pages move TOWARDS the spine. Whatever your software does to make it do this in equal amounts that summed equals the thickness of the book, do that. You can of course get creative as jobs permit, such as crossovers and tight gutters, but on the whole, that is the way to do it. Preps is a little different from say Apogee X in it's handling of creep, but on the whole and how you explained it, that is absolutely correct!

Envision it folding a 52 page book in half, (equals 104). Now look at the fan. The innermost pages need to come in, and the outermost pages need to move out. THAT is what you are trying to do, no matter the process or terminology.

[Tracy]

yeah the book shouldnt require creep on this one, i agree the bars should have been moved manually, were going to let it go.
my coworker left the job on the desktop. the day after he was let go the computer crashed. i always said never leave on the desktop! ionly have the postscript files on the brisque. this is a rerun job from a press error.

You could still move the bars manually if you distill your postscript into a PDF and then use PitStop to move the offending bars.

i guess i could get the .ps file from the brisque and distill, never thought of that.
the guy who laid out the job tho, has so many files replacing others it was so confusing i was lucky to figure it out!
they used a different paper size so i had to do a new layout.
jobs already running, bars are being sacrificed (not bad), great idea tho thanks!

[Tracy]

That's pretty much the way I understand it Joe. Fact I did the very same test as you when I was just starting to teach myself Preps and creep.

So...uhhhh...the pages halfway (pages 27 & 78 in this example) between the outer most and inner most pages are not supposed to get any creep? I just don't think that is correct.

Why not? Why would they need to?

i get it! the innermost pages or going in, the outermost going out, that page 27 is where the ins and outs meet!
so they dont need creep! wow i got something! tee hee

[Joe]

That's pretty much the way I understand it Joe. Fact I did the very same test as you when I was just starting to teach myself Preps and creep.

So...uhhhh...the pages halfway (pages 27 & 78 in this example) between the outer most and inner most pages are not supposed to get any creep? I just don't think that is correct.

Why not? Why would they need to?

Okay, I can see how it works, like Tracy said, where the inner pages and outer pages creep meets they don't need moved. It will work either way. If it's folded correctly and trimmed to trim size regardless of marks it will work by just using the inner number. If you want the bindery to trim to the marks it would need to be done using both inner and outer. To throw the proverbial turd in the punchbowl there is a configuration setting you can change in Preps so the marks don't move when you apply creep. I think my head is going to explode now. :laugh: