creep

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Join the club. I realized after reading this thread again, I said the same thing like 3 times. Talk about a stoner!

[frailer]

At the risk of making another head explode, my take on the Inner/Outer fields is that using both, if the images allow, gets to even out the movements; i.e. you're not stealing everything from the spine. But, in the bindery, if you've split it 50:50, they'll be obliged to increase the finished size. No big deal, in most cases. But it will be dictated by the amount you've "crept out"...on the outer half.
In most cases, this would be to the benefit of the overall appearance of the job.
In larger creeps, this would be almost a necessity, I would think. But skill in the bindery is the other part of getting it right. They usually fudge a bit to make it work a bit better.
Just my 2 bob's worth.

All I gotta do now is work out how to do it in Dyna.    :laugh:   On present progress rates, say, late '09.     :laugh:   

[tapdn]

...laffin with Frailer  :laugh:
Our quarterfold jobs are all web and having moved here from a sheetfed commercial shop the first thing I had to "get use to" was the fact that there were no marks and no one knew the actual finished size of a job. Indeed bindery has to adjust trim on a per job basics to make it "look right".

[Joe]

At the risk of making another head explode, my take on the Inner/Outer fields is that using both, if the images allow, gets to even out the movements; i.e. you're not stealing everything from the spine. But, in the bindery, if you've split it 50:50, they'll be obliged to increase the finished size. No big deal, in most cases. But it will be dictated by the amount you've "crept out"...on the outer half.
In most cases, this would be to the benefit of the overall appearance of the job.
In larger creeps, this would be almost a necessity, I would think. But skill in the bindery is the other part of getting it right. They usually fudge a bit to make it work a bit better.
Just my 2 bob's worth.

All I gotta do now is work out how to do it in Dyna.    :laugh:   On present progress rates, say, late '09.     :laugh:   

My head is clearer today so hopefully it won't explode. I had never heard of using both the inner and outer number but the more I ponder it the more it makes sense. Thanks for all of the info everyone. I might even have a job tonight to try it on if it's got enough pages. I don't usually apply creep to anything under 72 pages so we will see. See, you can teach an old dog new tricks. :laugh:

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Or an old Tiger. :tongue:

[DCurry]

Just saw this link on The Dark Side - it is a free utility that calculates creep values:

http://www.montesi-consulting.com/downloads.htm

It's the third one down under "For any Imposition Program."

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Thanks man, that's actually very cool! Just tried it out on a job manually, and with the utility, got the same numbers. Beats having to whip out the book everytime!

[DigiCorn]

Just another 2 cents worth of creep info. If you have some crossovers in a book, but not on every page here's how to turn the creep off for a few select problem children. Dupe your sig in Preps, and name your forms Form 1, form 2, form 3, form 4, form 5, form 6 (if you are doing 8pp sigs). Determine which sigs have the pages with the crossovers. Select the pages within that particular sig that have the crossover and Ctrl-I to bring up the template page information window. Click "additional settings" and then look for Shingling (Creep). There are two drop downs, of shich one says "Automatic". Pull it down to "Manual" and set the ammount to "0" (if it doesn't default to 0 already). In your run list, bring in your sigs, sig 1, sig 2 and so on. Apply your creep amount as you would normally. There will be no creep on the pages you selected, and creep on the rest of the book. It's not as correct a solution as moving the art manually in the original file to account, but it's something...

[Tracy]

thanks for all the creep info! i tried the creep calculator (that sounds funny) what a great tool!

[johnny_jay]

Just another 2 cents worth of creep info. If you have some crossovers in a book, but not on every page here's how to turn the creep off for a few select problem children. Dupe your sig in Preps, and name your forms Form 1, form 2, form 3, form 4, form 5, form 6 (if you are doing 8pp sigs). Determine which sigs have the pages with the crossovers. Select the pages within that particular sig that have the crossover and Ctrl-I to bring up the template page information window. Click "additional settings" and then look for Shingling (Creep). There are two drop downs, of shich one says "Automatic". Pull it down to "Manual" and set the ammount to "0" (if it doesn't default to 0 already). In your run list, bring in your sigs, sig 1, sig 2 and so on. Apply your creep amount as you would normally. There will be no creep on the pages you selected, and creep on the rest of the book. It's not as correct a solution as moving the art manually in the original file to account, but it's something...

This is what we have been doing for the last few years but the downside is that you end up with duplicate templates that you may never need again.

I have used the feature request page to ask that they change the software so that you can tell pages not to be included when shingling.

http://ecentral.creo.com/ecentral/ssi/forms/PRcraving.asp

[tapdn]

Thanks for the link JJ-
my 2 cents worth added also.

[DigiCorn]

hey johnny_jay,

how do you like that 9800? we just got new 7880, but haven't used it yet. what are you using to drive it - EFI or GMG?

[johnny_jay]

We are using Rampage's ICC, we are not running a 3rd party rip for our proofs

[DigiCorn]

and how's that working out for ya?

[johnny_jay]

As long as we keep everything calibrated, they work quite well. The biggest trouble is when one starts to drift (we are running 3 9800s) or when the operators don't clean the heads and the proofs look like they are behind venetian blinds.