Bottling and RamPage

Started by DigiCorn, June 10, 2008, 03:31:19 PM

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DigiCorn

June 10, 2008, 03:31:19 PM
Does anyone here have any experience with bottling? I have seen it done and understand how and why, but I can't personally make it work. I bottle my template in Preps, but when I run the data through RamPage, I get an error that reads:

Error : postscript error (no explicit error).
Error : Illegally defined post processed image
Error : Ripped data rotations must be a multiple of 90 degrees.
Error : RIP failed. Postscript language error.

If you bottle, you will most definitely NOT be at 90 degrees. I bottled 1.5 degrees (my sheet is 17.5" x 22.5" and my art image is 16.25" x 19.5") because I don't have a lot of extra room, and visually it looks like it will work. 1.5 divides equally into 90 so technically it IS a multiple of 90.

Any suggestions?
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Joe

#1
June 10, 2008, 03:59:00 PM
I use it exactly as you describe with Nexus and it works for me. Sounds like a Rampage issue to me. By saying multiple of 90 they mean it either has to rotate 90, 180, or 270 degrees.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

almaink

#2
June 11, 2008, 07:58:14 AM Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 08:09:21 AM by almaink
Never heard of "bottling" before.
Are you talking about angling everything on the sheet a small degree to prevent moiré or ghosting?
Ok after a bit of searching I found this
Bottling: The process of skewing pages to compensate for paper thickness as it is folded. Primarily used on signatures designed for large web or large sheet-fed presses.

Still never heard of it and we do book work on 40" presses and fold the sheets here. If I needed to do this I'd rotate everything on the sheet
in INDesign while imposing, before I export to RAMpage as a PDF. That is if I understand this correctly.
OS10.6.8  OS10.10.5
Windows 10
Cannon C6000
Oce TDS 860
Kodak Digimaster 9110
Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers

DigiCorn

#3
June 11, 2008, 08:57:10 AM Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 08:59:47 AM by digital@sig-1.com
The solution is to impo the original file (and not a RamPage fpo) or rotate the art prior to RIP. You are correct in your assumption that bottling is skewing the art so as to avoid ghosting.

In regards to your sign-off/tag-line/quote I think you want to say, "You can't make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."  :laugh:

Also, never argue with an idiot - they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Joe

#4
June 11, 2008, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: almaink on June 11, 2008, 07:58:14 AMNever heard of "bottling" before.
Are you talking about angling everything on the sheet a small degree to prevent moiré or ghosting?
Ok after a bit of searching I found this
Bottling: The process of skewing pages to compensate for paper thickness as it is folded. Primarily used on signatures designed for large web or large sheet-fed presses.

Still never heard of it and we do book work on 40" presses and fold the sheets here. If I needed to do this I'd rotate everything on the sheet
in INDesign while imposing, before I export to RAMpage as a PDF. That is if I understand this correctly.

We use it on our 48 page & 64 page signatures (only applied to middle 24 & 32 pages of the template) on our web presses. Once we get over 32 pages in a signature the middle pages of the signature start to look crooked. We bottle (rotate) them .05 degrees in the opposite direction to compensate for it and it fixes them right up.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

almaink

#5
June 11, 2008, 12:36:15 PM
I've never seen this problem on our 48 or 64 or larger sigs here. Is this a web press thing?
OS10.6.8  OS10.10.5
Windows 10
Cannon C6000
Oce TDS 860
Kodak Digimaster 9110
Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers

Joe

#6
June 11, 2008, 12:39:12 PM
Quote from: almaink on June 11, 2008, 12:36:15 PMI've never seen this problem on our 48 or 64 or larger sigs here. Is this a web press thing?

Yes, as the press folds the signature down it pulls the inner pages in a way that makes them look skewed.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

almaink

#7
June 11, 2008, 01:19:43 PM
Ah I guess our Baum folders don't do that and thats why I never heard that term before. We used to cock the image on the sheet for ghosting and moiré issues, but that was many years ago, and they called it "twisting the gripper".
OS10.6.8  OS10.10.5
Windows 10
Cannon C6000
Oce TDS 860
Kodak Digimaster 9110
Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers

Tracy

#8
June 11, 2008, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: Joe  link=topic=1826.msg30375#msg30375 date=1213209552
Quote from: almaink on June 11, 2008, 12:36:15 PMI've never seen this problem on our 48 or 64 or larger sigs here. Is this a web press thing?

Yes, as the press folds the signature down it pulls the inner pages in a way that makes them look skewed.
Hey Joe, any suggestions on learning prepress for web, Im interested.

Joe

#9
June 11, 2008, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: Tracy on June 11, 2008, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: Joe  link=topic=1826.msg30375#msg30375 date=1213209552
Quote from: almaink on June 11, 2008, 12:36:15 PMI've never seen this problem on our 48 or 64 or larger sigs here. Is this a web press thing?

Yes, as the press folds the signature down it pulls the inner pages in a way that makes them look skewed.
Hey Joe, any suggestions on learning prepress for web, Im interested.

Unfortunately I don't know of any resources other than experience when dealing with web presses. I think they are all made differently enough that when you learn one you still won't know diddly about the others.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

Tracy

#10
June 12, 2008, 07:26:29 AM
thanks joe, I tried getting into a web printer once, didnt get the job no exp. with web.
only had 1 year exp in elec prepress back then tho.
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