Scale change on spreads

[Joe]

Any magic formula for doing spreads within Prinergy if you also have to scale the pages? And is there a way to scale pages in Prinergy during the refine? If they are at the right size when I go to impose them I can do the math and it works but if I have to scale them by using the geometry tool the math does not work. (At least I've found no mathematical formula that works for me.) The math we use is Preps trim size - PDF media size / 2. We take that result and move the pages that much towards the gutter. Works great unless we have to scale at the same time.

Keep in mind as well that our customers PDF's never have the correct trim size but their live work is usually centered in the media size and that could be anything as well. We have Preps center everything when it assigns pages to the imposition plan.

[DCurry]

I would think the Geometry editor would be the place, but since you say it doesn't work, maybe try doing it in Preps via the same method I mentioned when applying the Creep Scale option - make a Preps job, populate with blank pages, apply your page positioning, then print to PJTF. Import PJTF into Prinergy.

This is all theory - I haven't actually tested it!

[Joe]

I tried that with the Preps job populated with blank pages but the changes do not carry over to the job in Prinergy. Making changes via "Job"+"Layout Details" does stick but changing individual pages doesn't. And back when we were manually imposing doing the scale change to the pages would work but we could never find a mathematical formula that make them cross once scaled within Preps. We were using Nexus and imposing low res link files so we would scale the pages when it was making the CT/LW/Low Res Link file. The we could split them in Preps and use the math to figure exactly how far to move them and they then woould cross perfectly.

It works in Prinergy that way too if you can somehow scale the PDF before refining it (or while refining it). We though we had it solved by scaling the PDF using Pitstop in Acrobat before refining but doing Pitstop screwed up the PDF by destroying the soft drop shadows.

Right now we have a work around but it involves getting it close, making a VPS, measuring it, changing the amount it has to move, make a VPS, measure it again...until it finally fits correctly. Kind of a PITA...

In a perfect world the files would come in at the correct size and correct trim box. Unfortunately I don't live there.

[Aaron]

I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning so excuse me if I'm not following. But have you tried the rip for reader spreads option in the refine template? Would this help? They would then be individual pages and not spreads and can apply your geometry to the single pages.

[Joe]

Ooops...sorry. I do split them into single pages but if you then try to scale them and then do the math it doesn't work. Unless there is a secret formula I don't know about...which if there is that's what I would like to find out. The proble is the pages are not the right size to start with and the trim box in the PDF is also not correct. Most of our stuff comes in like this.

[Aaron]

I think I follow now. Since when you split them apart they are not centered anymore?

[Joe]

Yes, but then I could still do the math to put them back together but the math doesn't work when you do the scale change with the geometry tool.

[Aaron]

Hmm. Sorry, wish I could help. I usually don't even change the trim definitions as long as the content is centered. I just let it warn me the trim sizes don't match and since it centers it anyway I don't bother changing it.

[tapdn]

May be a bit off topic, but...
Have a customer I've been dealing with for years whose supplied PDFs have always been very consistant. Copy centered on 8.5x11 I drop into Preps, apply the usual offsets and away we go. Recently their PDFs are mixed with some having different media, crop, bleed boxes causing me to have to check each page and  change offsets in Layout Details. They have "upgraded" to Quark 8.1 apparently on one Mac, but not the other!!??