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Offline DCurry

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Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« on: September 29, 2009, 03:53:11 PM »
Okay, I've been at my new gig for a week now and I don't know much about this Xitron Xenith system other than I think it is version 6.0.3. Preps is 5.2.

I've noticed that on my impositions, some marks on my templates are hidden by the pages. For instance, I have a perfect bound book so I'm using collation marks. In the template, I have selected the mark and chosen "Bring to Front" so that it should sit on top of the work, but after Xenith gets done with linking up the hi-res pages the mark disappears. This also occurs with the little crosshairs in the gutters.

Anybody have any insight?
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Offline Ear

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2009, 03:57:45 PM »
Yep, I'm running the same setup.

Page items and bleed in preps will override marks so you have to do away with bleed or shorten pages in those instances. It's pretty rare for me other than perfect bound stuff. I add the collation marks, then get info on the pages that are on that spread and set bleed to 0 at the spine, in the grind gutter. I run registration diamonds for our heatset so for tabloids, I have to impo for a slightly smaller page size which is okay since tabloids don't bleed anyway. For a 17.5" tab, I have my preps pages set to 17.25 with no bleed, centered so the reg marks and crosshairs show up.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 03:58:20 PM by Earendil »
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Offline DCurry

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2009, 04:19:03 PM »
That's a bummer. I can't set the bleed to zero in the grindoff because our vendor prefers the image to bleed into the grindoff.

Oh, well, at least I know I'm not missing something.

I miss my Prinergy!
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Offline Ear

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2009, 04:31:23 PM »
I hear ya. The Xitron isn't too bad once you get used to it. It doesn't quite have all the bells and whistles of Prinergy but it's fast as hell, especially in a web shop.

So, if you're bleeding into the grind, how do plan on printing the collation marks in the first place? How thick of a grind/gutter are you using? Can you split the difference? i.e. .25 gutter for .125 grind, center a .125 collation mark and bleed .0625 on each side to split the difference?
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Offline Stiv

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2009, 04:38:40 PM »
What if you place a rectangle with 0 fill and then put the reg/coll mark on top?

Offline Ear

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2009, 05:00:25 PM »
Haven't tried that but my understanding is the workflow will always override preps marks with the high res pages. In the Xitron, you are using 36dpi .eps for placement and they get replaced by the fully screened hi res files. The only thing that actually gets printed from preps are the marks, and they will always go to the back, much like a layer. It's very fast but has obvious limitations.
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Offline Stiv

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2009, 05:11:47 PM »
I do not use Xitron but my Preps marks will overprint the work. I can put a mark anywhere, bring it to the front and it will print.
I have had marks be difficult in bringing to the front. Sometimes I will dupe the mark on top of itself and then bring the new one to the front.
Have you called Xitron, when I had a Xitron RIP (10 years ago) they were very helpful.

Offline Ear

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2009, 05:21:28 PM »
So, are you importing PDFs directly into Preps or a placement file? I've worked with Brisque and Prinergy and had more control over things like this but I can bust a job out faster with the Xitron.
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2009, 05:38:09 PM »
I've been bit by targets showing up if there are blank parts in the artwork. One job got the paper size changed 3 times and I wasn't paying attention and a target ended up under a page, in a blank area and ended up printing inside the work. It happened with both the old AGFA apology and the new Prinergy system. Maybe pull back the bleed and place an independent page with the mark? If the Xritron overides any marks with the pages it should work.  :huh:
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Offline Joe

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2009, 07:12:31 PM »

That's a bummer. I can't set the bleed to zero in the grindoff because our vendor prefers the image to bleed into the grindoff.

Oh, well, at least I know I'm not missing something.

I miss my Prinergy!


I had that same problem on Nexus, and I don't know if it will help with Xitron, but we found if we made the collation marks and gutter fold marks as smartmarks instead of static marks they would stay on top. If you are already using smartmarks then ignore this. :laugh:
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Offline DCurry

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2009, 08:02:01 PM »
I don't find it to be fast at all - in fact, they are looking at replacing it. Leaning toward Prinergy EVO, but there are some IT concerns (we are a very high security corporation).

In the past with my old PS/M and Prinergy workflows, my grindoff was .125+.125, so that resulted in a .25" gutter. I would make my collation mark .125" wide and center it over the gutter and it would be fine. Cutting the bleed back is an option for down the road, but right now since I'm new I don't want to rock the boat.

Joe, I will give the Smart Mark idea a whirl next time. Right now I am coming into a shop that has some very, shall we just say, "interesting" ways of doing things. Most everything I'm doing now involves just picking up existing templates. Luckily I am the only prepress op now so I'll be able to mold things as time goes on.
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Offline bprocknow

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2009, 01:42:32 PM »
Just stumbled across this forum. I'm also using Xenith and Preps and have no problems with the marks disappearing, except on the proofs, which I think is a Xenith bug, but they show up on the plates. Make sure marks are in front in Preps and in the Xenith imposition RIP make sure the "Impose by merging" box is checked.

Brian

Offline Joe

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Re: Xenith + Preps = disappearing marks
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2009, 01:48:48 PM »

Just stumbled across this forum. I'm also using Xenith and Preps and have no problems with the marks disappearing, except on the proofs, which I think is a Xenith bug, but they show up on the plates. Make sure marks are in front in Preps and in the Xenith imposition RIP make sure the "Impose by merging" box is checked.

Brian


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