Illustrator Die Lines

[beck]

I work at a folding carton manufacturer.  When we send out die lines for customers to build art to, the die is in Illustrator format.

The problem we have is customers making subtle changes to the die line, building art to it, but not notifiying us that they changed it.  It goes to press, then die cutting before we realize they made a change. 

My question is, is there a way to "Lock" the die line so they cannot modify it?  Or possibly, add some kind of a watermark so at least we'll know they screwed with it.

Thanks in advance,

beck

[jimking]

You can lock the layers in Illy but the designer can also unlock them. What you could do is look at the date of modification of the original Illustrator file given to the client and compare the date and time when receiving the files. You can also type or post in Illustrator just outside of the dielines warning clients not to modify the dielines.

[almaink]

You can also lock elements but they can also be unlocked. If you save the dieline as a PDF and put restrictions
on it with a password tho, they can't alter it.

[jimking]

I thought of a pdf but didn't mention it because some clients may not be able to place or work with a pdf because of outdated software that doesn't support pdfs. But one could ask the client if they can work with a pdf and if yes secure the file.

[Zimmy3]

Don't they realize a die is already made?
If they change a die(in art files), a new die has to be made?
Who pays for a new die each time?

[jimking]

They're designers, if they can F---- with it, they will!!

[beck]

I agree...they are designers, and they will F _ _ _ with it, not knowing/caring that a die has been created.

Zimmy3, when we send out a die line, sometimes it is a die on hand (if a re-run job).  If it's a new job, we do not build the die until we get a P.O..

I'm going to try the PDF/Password protected & see how that goes.

Thanks.

[beck]

Did the PDF thing, here's how it went....

Placed OK, out Structure guy made sure to save it to 100% size.
Tried to password protect the PDF on his end.  I needed the password to place it in Illy.  Defeats the purpose.

The only good thing I can see is it will be a quick visual check to see if the artist "Placed" it, thus no modification of our die.

If anyone has ideas on the protection thing, I'd love to hear them.

beck

[LoganBlade]

Name your layers in Illustrator.
Put the used DIE LINES on top layer and keep active
Copy to layer1 and change the color by 1% of the original color. Keep this layer off.
If they change it on the active layer you can look at bottom layer.
If they are a little smart they might do a copy of the top layer and put in bottom but notmakethe 1% color change becausethey think itis the same. Maybe a little extra work but less than making the new die after you already cut some.


Just an idea

[mark_jetzer]

Same trouble here.  All of our dies have a Die #, which is the multi up version of the die and a Drawing Number, which is the single item.  I always just replace the die in their file with my master during production to catch the problems.  I started doing that when a CSR was sending out PDFs of the dielines that where all scaled to fit an 11x17" laser printer.  I got about 10 jobs in all scaled to sizes like 34.55% or 93.45%.  After I beat the CSR with a wet noodle.  I just started replacing the dies.  Most of the customers ignored the ink and glue knockouts anyway.  It slows things down a bit, but it's a CYA kind of thing.  Thankfully, our internal design group knows NOT to mess with the die lines.

[Zimmy3]

How about convert the die to a ct and keep an eye on the dates of the ct's to see if they change.

[Shaun]

Place an 'ARD' cad file if you have it by using the free 'ArtiosCAD Import and Export Plug-i' plug-in from the Esko website.
You can't edit the ARD without it being obvious you've altered it, we use ARD's all the time and this stopped "Designer d--kheads" screwing with the dies overnight!

Shaun

[jimking]

Place an 'ARD' cad file if you have it by using the free 'ArtiosCAD Import and Export Plug-i' plug-in from the Esko website.
You can't edit the ARD without it being obvious you've altered it, we use ARD's all the time and this stopped "Designer d--kheads" screwing with the dies overnight!

Shaun

Will Quark and Indy and even Pagemaker, Illustrator be able to place the file and view?

[beck]

Jetzer,
Yea, we're supposed to do that as well.  But when we see our legend box on the die line layer, we usually skip that step.  Last week, though, we got burned.  She altered the die line and did not tell us, and did not delete/alter the legend box.

Zimmy,
Our structure guys saved it as a PDF, and it places in Illy fine (just like a CT).  The only problem is you CAN open it in Illy, thus allowing modification.

LoganBlade,
That is something I may run by the boss.

I think what we are going to do is start sending out the die lines as PDFs, with specific instructions to PLACE, not OPEN.  When the art comes back, we'll check to see if the die was PLACED or OPENED.  If placed, we know our die is OK.  If opened, we'll replace.
It looks like the safest way is to just replace EVERY die on EVERY piece of art that comes in.  Slower, yes, but it will cover our ass.

Thanks, and have a Merry Christmas,

beck

[G_Town]

Part of our preflight is to put our internal CAD/DIE file on each and every file we receive. You never know if the customer used the most recent, grabbed a similar one or just said F&*$ it I want this panel 3/16" smaller and altered your die.