Transparencies again. How do you guys deal with them?

Started by AaronH, April 25, 2018, 05:30:56 PM

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DigiCorn

Quote from: AaronH on April 26, 2018, 11:07:38 AM
Quote from: DigiCorn on April 26, 2018, 10:46:04 AMFlattener preview gives me the boxes also (just like Fiery/CWS). The prepress fixup is the one that works for us.

That fixup worked perfectly DigiCorn. You're amazing!
Thank you. Please tell my wife.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Tracy

I use Pitstop for reducing Ink Coverage, the transparencies are a designer problem in my opinion!!
One thing you can do is rasterize the offending page, and not the vector with pitstop.
I do all kinds of work arounds for this designer problem :laugh:

@digi
I recently learned something about our copiers, When I print to it, it is a postscript file
when i drag the file into command workstation it is a pdf file.
There is also a setting in there you have to check in order to use the pdf print engine
If you don't select that when you have a pdf file, it will do weird things to the transparency.

might want to check if you have the pdf print engine, Not too impressed with the Konica that we have tho.

Joe

Quote from: DigiCorn on April 26, 2018, 09:59:00 AMWe don't technically have a RIP. Everything is digital, and goes through Command WorkStation.

Fiery can APPE to CWS for a cool $25,000
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

Joe

Quote from: Tracy on April 26, 2018, 11:55:06 AMI use Pitstop for reducing Ink Coverage, the transparencies are a designer problem in my opinion!!
One thing you can do is rasterize the offending page, and not the vector with pitstop.
I do all kinds of work arounds for this designer problem :laugh:

@digi
I recently learned something about our copiers, When I print to it, it is a postscript file
when i drag the file into command workstation it is a pdf file.

There is also a setting in there you have to check in order to use the pdf print engine
If you don't select that when you have a pdf file, it will do weird things to the transparency.

might want to check if you have the pdf print engine, Not too impressed with the Konica that we have tho.

That is because printing flattens it and makes a postscript file while dragging it over just copies the PDF. If you have the PDF Print Engine, the one by Adobe (APPE) it should handle transparency.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

DigiCorn

Quote from: Joe on April 26, 2018, 12:09:13 PM
Quote from: Tracy on April 26, 2018, 11:55:06 AMI use Pitstop for reducing Ink Coverage, the transparencies are a designer problem in my opinion!!
One thing you can do is rasterize the offending page, and not the vector with pitstop.
I do all kinds of work arounds for this designer problem :laugh:

@digi
I recently learned something about our copiers, When I print to it, it is a postscript file
when i drag the file into command workstation it is a pdf file.

There is also a setting in there you have to check in order to use the pdf print engine
If you don't select that when you have a pdf file, it will do weird things to the transparency.

might want to check if you have the pdf print engine, Not too impressed with the Konica that we have tho.

That is because printing flattens it and makes a postscript file while dragging it over just copies the PDF. If you have the PDF Print Engine, the one by Adobe (APPE) it should handle transparency.
We are well aware of that. Number one reason? Color. Printing the .ps to the CWS vs. PDF drag-and-drop WILL CHANGE COLOR. Especially on Pantones. But especially on Pantones. We have found that printing direct is the better option vs. drag-and-drop as color is more accurate and better for matching.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Tracy

Do you have a Konica?
I haven't been happy with the spot colors, I will check out the difference over here.

DigiCorn

"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Joe

Quote from: DigiCorn on April 26, 2018, 12:14:34 PM
Quote from: Joe on April 26, 2018, 12:09:13 PM
Quote from: Tracy on April 26, 2018, 11:55:06 AMI use Pitstop for reducing Ink Coverage, the transparencies are a designer problem in my opinion!!
One thing you can do is rasterize the offending page, and not the vector with pitstop.
I do all kinds of work arounds for this designer problem :laugh:

@digi
I recently learned something about our copiers, When I print to it, it is a postscript file
when i drag the file into command workstation it is a pdf file.

There is also a setting in there you have to check in order to use the pdf print engine
If you don't select that when you have a pdf file, it will do weird things to the transparency.

might want to check if you have the pdf print engine, Not too impressed with the Konica that we have tho.

That is because printing flattens it and makes a postscript file while dragging it over just copies the PDF. If you have the PDF Print Engine, the one by Adobe (APPE) it should handle transparency.
We are well aware of that. Number one reason? Color. Printing the .ps to the CWS vs. PDF drag-and-drop WILL CHANGE COLOR. Especially on Pantones. But especially on Pantones. We have found that printing direct is the better option vs. drag-and-drop as color is more accurate and better for matching.

Well I wasn't replying to you. :tongue:

But if you have color management setup the same for both it shouldn't make any difference. What is your Acrobat color management setup for when you print? If you have it set like this when you print the PDF then it should be identical to the drag-n-drop PDF as all color management will be applied within CWS....assuming you use the same settings for both within CWS.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

DigiCorn

I was talking about dragging-and-dropping the pdf to the queue. Not printing the pdf to the queue.

Side note: Sometimes when you drag-and-drop, if the fonts are squirrely, or not embedded, they will do weird things in CWS, but printing the pdf to the queue will usually fix this (aside from actually fixing the file properly to begin with).
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Tracy

so Joe, How do you set the Pdf file to be same as source?
I always print to CW as same as source, think we might be getting somewhere here! :smiley:

Joe

Quote from: DigiCorn on April 26, 2018, 01:09:03 PMI was talking about dragging-and-dropping the pdf to the queue. Not printing the pdf to the queue.

Side note: Sometimes when you drag-and-drop, if the fonts are squirrely, or not embedded, they will do weird things in CWS, but printing the pdf to the queue will usually fix this (aside from actually fixing the file properly to begin with).

You literally said "Printing the .ps to the CWS vs. PDF drag-and-drop WILL CHANGE COLOR." So where are you getting the .ps from? From printing the PDF from Acrobat right? Printing the PS vs drag-n-drop the PDF should not see a color difference.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

Joe

Quote from: Tracy on April 26, 2018, 01:11:00 PMso Joe, How do you set the Pdf file to be same as source?
I always print to CW as same as source, think we might be getting somewhere here! :smiley:

In the printing dialog click the 'Advanced' button. The click Color Management in the left column. I was have it set 'Same as Source' as I don't Acrobat or the print driver to do any color management. If this is in relation to your spot colors not looking good I don't think there is much that can be done about it. Printing spots on a CMYK device is always going to be a 'close enough' scenario. We usually try to change them to CMYK before we send to the Fiery because the Fiery does some strange stuff trying to convert spots to cmyk.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

DigiCorn

Quote from: Joe on April 26, 2018, 01:12:37 PM
Quote from: DigiCorn on April 26, 2018, 01:09:03 PMI was talking about dragging-and-dropping the pdf to the queue. Not printing the pdf to the queue.

Side note: Sometimes when you drag-and-drop, if the fonts are squirrely, or not embedded, they will do weird things in CWS, but printing the pdf to the queue will usually fix this (aside from actually fixing the file properly to begin with).

You literally said "Printing the .ps to the CWS vs. PDF drag-and-drop WILL CHANGE COLOR." So where are you getting the .ps from? From printing the PDF from Acrobat right? Printing the PS vs drag-n-drop the PDF should not see a color difference.
No. We set some files here, and we work with pdfs direct from customer (we extremely rarely ever get native files). We print the .ps from InDesign, unless you're saying that print from ID to CWS doesn't arrive as a .ps. We drag-and-drop pdfs... usually.

In some instances, when needed, we place the pdf in ID, and print the pdf to CWS from ID to fix issues as before mentioned.

This is the second most down-and-dirty get-it-out-quickly-we-don't-care-how print shop I've ever worked in, and the first like this in 20 years. My partner is very knowledgeable, but she will just get it out any way possible and not at all focus on proper technique or adjustments in the future (for example, reruns).
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

DigiCorn

Quote from: Joe on April 26, 2018, 01:17:47 PM
Quote from: Tracy on April 26, 2018, 01:11:00 PMso Joe, How do you set the Pdf file to be same as source?
I always print to CW as same as source, think we might be getting somewhere here! :smiley:

In the printing dialog click the 'Advanced' button. The click Color Management in the left column. I was have it set 'Same as Source' as I don't Acrobat or the print driver to do any color management. If this is in relation to your spot colors not looking good I don't think there is much that can be done about it. Printing spots on a CMYK device is always going to be a 'close enough' scenario. We usually try to change them to CMYK before we send to the Fiery because the Fiery does some strange stuff trying to convert spots to cmyk.
That's the exact issue with color I am describing.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Joe

Quote from: DigiCorn on April 26, 2018, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: Joe on April 26, 2018, 01:12:37 PM
Quote from: DigiCorn on April 26, 2018, 01:09:03 PMI was talking about dragging-and-dropping the pdf to the queue. Not printing the pdf to the queue.

Side note: Sometimes when you drag-and-drop, if the fonts are squirrely, or not embedded, they will do weird things in CWS, but printing the pdf to the queue will usually fix this (aside from actually fixing the file properly to begin with).

You literally said "Printing the .ps to the CWS vs. PDF drag-and-drop WILL CHANGE COLOR." So where are you getting the .ps from? From printing the PDF from Acrobat right? Printing the PS vs drag-n-drop the PDF should not see a color difference.

No. We set some files here, and we work with pdfs direct from customer (we extremely rarely ever get native files). We print the .ps from InDesign, unless you're saying that print from ID to CWS doesn't arrive as a .ps. We drag-and-drop pdfs... usually.

In some instances, when needed, we place the pdf in ID, and print the pdf to CWS from ID to fix issues as before mentioned.

This is the second most down-and-dirty get-it-out-quickly-we-don't-care-how print shop I've ever worked in, and the first like this in 20 years. My partner is very knowledgeable, but she will just get it out any way possible and not at all focus on proper technique or adjustments in the future (for example, reruns).

So you get PDF's direct from customer. Place the PDF in InDesign and print to Fiery? Yes that flattens and I assume sends a .ps file to Fiery. But why not just print the PDF from Acrobat?

Printing from either Acrobat or InDesign will flatten and send a .ps file to Fiery. Drag and drop forces to Fiery to flatten and it sucks at that most of the time. I've heard people with APPE on their fiery don't have this issue but we were to cheap to cough up the $25K for the APPE. Our designers usually print their creations from Indy to Fiery. If they receive PDF from a customer they usually print from Acrobat to the Fiery.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.