Currently, (Illustrator CS5) the arc or envelope warp function uses the CONTENTS of a clipping path, whether masked or not, rather than the BOUNDS OF THE CLIPPING PATH, to determine the bounding box to start the warp/arc from.
I wish the arc/warp mechanics worked like they do for align. What's visible with the clipping path on the art is what is aligned to. (Not everything underneath that clipping path that's not even visible [unless you are in wireframe mode]).
I'm trying to find a way to distort (arc) rectangular art that bleeds (and usually has lots extraneous art hidden under the clipping path) without Illustrator using the extraneous art to calculate the arc. Anyone know of a plug in for Illustrator where Illustrator would "ignore" this extra and just use the shape of the clipping path as the "active" area to calculate the warp? (The extra stuff can go along for the arc/warp...I just don't want it overly distorting the art where it sticks out a lot on one side or another.)
If not Illustrator...anyone know of any system that will do this? A few years ago I witnessed Esko's warping...and to my dismay....it worked just like Illustrator.
I've quickly tried Illustrator CS6...but it seems to do the same...unless I'm missing something.
Any ideas?
Currently I have to rip into the art and manually clip it back (photos and vector) so it doesn't extend past the bleed so this doesn't happen.
So, let me get this right... you want the art for the arc to be parallel on both sides within the clipping mask? Am I understanding you correctly? If not, maybe you should post a couple screenshots to verify what exactly it is you are asking.
I can think of a few workarounds for what I think you are describing, but hard to elaborate without actually seeing it.
Many, many years ago, there used to be a useful AI plug-in called envelopes, but I think it became the AI tool you are currently using.
Imagine that an artist sent you rectangular art, that you then have to warp to wrap around a cup.
The art has placed photos (in Illustrator), along with some vector shapes and type that can't be distorted beyond legibility. The photos, of course, extend way beyond the bleed on a side (or two). A clipping path is on top of all indicating the rectangular shape that should be warped. Is there a way to warp by using this rectangular shape so that the extraneous stuff is ignored?
Could you use layers to help separate the art to distort from the rest?
If so, not sure the distort feature would honor layers... :shrug:
That would be a lot easier to do in Photoshop. Of course, you will have to rasterize all the vector, but does that even matter?
I bet it matters, packaging :hangme:
:grin:
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.®
Hahaha, no actually it depends on the output intent of the file itself. Is this piece being distorted for packaging for final print, or is he making a mock-up to show placement of the said artwork on the intended final object. In this case, a cup.
What makes you so sure Frustrated is a "he"
Don't forget you've been burned by that b4 :lmao:
Jiminy Cricket? :lmao:
It really doesn't matter. You're are 100% correct. I have TOTALLY been burned by that. I think MORE than a time or 2. I can't help it, I'm a Prepress pig. :laugh:
Quote from: DigiCorn on September 19, 2012, 12:52:23 PMMany, many years ago, there used to be a useful AI plug-in called envelopes, but I think it became the AI tool you are currently using.
Envelope Distort. Under the Object menu in Illustrator. That may work for your purpose.
Quote from: born2print on September 19, 2012, 01:16:38 PMCould you use layers to help separate the art to distort from the rest?
If so, not sure the distort feature would honor layers... :shrug:
Yes, but I'm really looking for an easier way. Basically I want to find software that will do the heavy lifting.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 19, 2012, 01:35:40 PMThat would be a lot easier to do in Photoshop. Of course, you will have to rasterize all the vector, but does that even matter?
It does.
Quote from: born2print on September 19, 2012, 01:44:13 PMI bet it matters, packaging :hangme:
You sir, are correct.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 19, 2012, 01:48:35 PMQuote from: born2print on September 19, 2012, 01:44:13 PMI bet it matters, packaging :hangme:
Depends®
Wear em. For those unexpected surprises. (Really old stripper)
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 19, 2012, 02:52:19 PMHahaha, no actually it depends on the output intent of the file itself. Is this piece being distorted for packaging for final print, or is he making a mock-up to show placement of the said artwork on the intended final object. In this case, a cup.
Not a mock-up. Gotta be accurate warp and high quality.
Quote from: born2print on September 19, 2012, 02:56:36 PMWhat makes you so sure Frustrated is a "he"
Don't forget you've been burned by that b4 :lmao:
Light your Bic, he's gettin' burned again.
Quote from: Grimace on September 20, 2012, 10:07:13 AMQuote from: DigiCorn on September 19, 2012, 12:52:23 PMMany, many years ago, there used to be a useful AI plug-in called envelopes, but I think it became the AI tool you are currently using.
Envelope Distort. Under the Object menu in Illustrator. That may work for your purpose.
Envelope distort (as far as I know, or have found, but correct me if I'm wrong) will still take the entire drawing into the calculation, including what is hidden by the clipping path.
If Illustrator can do this for the "Align" feature, I'm just surprised that it can't do this for the "warp" or "arc" or "envelope" feature.
Anyone out there do work that is required to be distorted to fit an actual object? If so, what do you use to get a high quality, editable file with an ability to precisely shape it to fit?
"Light your Bic, he's gettin' burned again."
Thought so, glad to have you CMYKFrustrated. You seem much more friendly than that PMSfrustrated member that was hangin' round.
Quote from: born2print on September 20, 2012, 11:30:58 AM"Light your Bic, he's gettin' burned again."
Thought so, glad to have you CMYKFrustrated. You seem much more friendly than that PMSfrustrated member that was hangin' round.
LMAO!!! Maybe that wasn't the acronym for Pantone Matching System!!!!
Our designer uses a plugin for Illy called Strata 3D
Quote from: t-pat on September 20, 2012, 12:02:41 PMOur designer uses a plugin for Illy called Strata 3D
I'll check into that! Thank you!
Quote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 20, 2012, 11:17:52 AMEnvelope distort (as far as I know, or have found, but correct me if I'm wrong) will still take the entire drawing into the calculation, including what is hidden by the clipping path.
If Illustrator can do this for the "Align" feature, I'm just surprised that it can't do this for the "warp" or "arc" or "envelope" feature.
Anyone out there do work that is required to be distorted to fit an actual object? If so, what do you use to get a high quality, editable file with an ability to precisely shape it to fit?
Try using the Mesh option. It allows you to grab points and move them as needed. Also check the Envelope Options and check the clipping mask option.
This may be too cumbersome for what you need, but I believe the mesh option eliminates the funky warp effects you describe.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 19, 2012, 03:05:42 PMI'm a Prepress pig. :laugh:
Prepress pig! Prepress pig!
How bout you just drop them pants, boy.
Quote from: Grimace on September 20, 2012, 04:07:03 PMQuote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 20, 2012, 11:17:52 AMEnvelope distort (as far as I know, or have found, but correct me if I'm wrong) will still take the entire drawing into the calculation, including what is hidden by the clipping path.
If Illustrator can do this for the "Align" feature, I'm just surprised that it can't do this for the "warp" or "arc" or "envelope" feature.
Anyone out there do work that is required to be distorted to fit an actual object? If so, what do you use to get a high quality, editable file with an ability to precisely shape it to fit?
Try using the Mesh option. It allows you to grab points and move them as needed. Also check the Envelope Options and check the clipping mask option.
This may be too cumbersome for what you need, but I believe the mesh option eliminates the funky warp effects you describe.
I'm playing with this now, Illustrator CS6. I'm using the clipping mask option with the envelope warp, but it seems to position the warp box to the entire art instead of just the clipping mask.
I've also watched the Lynda.com tutorial on the Illustrator CS6 2D perspective drawing...and or...mapping static artwork to the perspective grid.
I need Illustrator to either align the envelope mesh tool with the clipping path.....or...allow the 2D perspective too to curve it's lines.
Any ideas? Am I doing something wrong?
Quote from: t-pat on September 20, 2012, 12:02:41 PMOur designer uses a plugin for Illy called Strata 3D
Quote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 20, 2012, 12:08:03 PMQuote from: t-pat on September 20, 2012, 12:02:41 PMOur designer uses a plugin for Illy called Strata 3D
I'll check into that! Thank you!
From what I can tell from the short tutorials on the Strata 3D website....(and I may be missing something)....it's taking the art that's positioned on a folding/diecut templet and aligning it so that it would match along the folds. Nice....but I'm not seeing a warp aspect to being able to curve art to a rounded shape that doesn't fold.
We used to do some work for a "Cup-a-Soup"-type product a few years ago. I remember using Illy CS2 in conjunction with a warp effect. I'll have to hop in the way-back machine and see if I can find an example in the archives. If I do find one I'll let you know and you can have a file to play with, pull apart, and perhaps see what makes it tick. They were supplied to us, so we really didn't have anything to do with putting them together or applying the warp effect. It'll have to wait 'til Monday tho' as I'm outta here for the weekend. :drunk3: :drunk3: :drunk3:
Cheers, eh!
Thanks Andyfest.
The check box under envelope options for clipping mask is in a box designated as "rasters". The example I'm working with now for simplicity sake is all vector. But when it's a photo hanging out, it's a pain having to take that photo and attempt to crop it back to the bleed to minimize the distort of the warp.
I'm realizing that "envelope" will always (it seems) make the envelope to the size of the entire art, not just the clipping path, which is what I need it to do.
On to seeing if I can curve the lines in the 2D perspective grid.
Quote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 21, 2012, 11:08:12 AMQuote from: t-pat on September 20, 2012, 12:02:41 PMOur designer uses a plugin for Illy called Strata 3D
Quote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 20, 2012, 12:08:03 PMQuote from: t-pat on September 20, 2012, 12:02:41 PMOur designer uses a plugin for Illy called Strata 3D
I'll check into that! Thank you!
From what I can tell from the short tutorials on the Strata 3D website....(and I may be missing something)....it's taking the art that's positioned on a folding/diecut templet and aligning it so that it would match along the folds. Nice....but I'm not seeing a warp aspect to being able to curve art to a rounded shape that doesn't fold.
I saw him doing something where he would put an actual product sample, in this case a spray can, on a turntable, photograph it 360 degrees in several shots, and merge 2 d illy art onto a wireframe the software would generate from the camera shots, yielding a complete 3d model of the product. He was grafting a label onto the can for modeling. He also did a blister pack for the can the same way. Maybe it's not what you need though, sorry!
Quote from: t-pat on September 21, 2012, 12:13:43 PMQuote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 21, 2012, 11:08:12 AMQuote from: t-pat on September 20, 2012, 12:02:41 PMOur designer uses a plugin for Illy called Strata 3D
Quote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 20, 2012, 12:08:03 PMQuote from: t-pat on September 20, 2012, 12:02:41 PMOur designer uses a plugin for Illy called Strata 3D
I'll check into that! Thank you!
From what I can tell from the short tutorials on the Strata 3D website....(and I may be missing something)....it's taking the art that's positioned on a folding/diecut templet and aligning it so that it would match along the folds. Nice....but I'm not seeing a warp aspect to being able to curve art to a rounded shape that doesn't fold.
I saw him doing something where he would put an actual product sample, in this case a spray can, on a turntable, photograph it 360 degrees in several shots, and merge 2 d illy art onto a wireframe the software would generate from the camera shots, yielding a complete 3d model of the product. He was grafting a label onto the can for modeling. He also did a blister pack for the can the same way. Maybe it's not what you need though, sorry!
That DOES sound like a great way to make a 3-D mock up, but you're right, I'm kinda looking for a way to preserve the integrity of the original file in it's vector/raster form and just arc/warp/curve it.
I've found from my experiments today that if I use the envelope mesh, keep the mesh simple, edit the contents to pull the shape I'm aiming for out of the mesh envelope, I can (painstakingly) select the individual points of the mesh and move their handles and position to sorta do what I'm attempting. It's certainly nothing I'd rely on in a real world situation and it takes an ability to understand bezier curves.
There has to be a more elegant solution to this. A way to say "Select all the mesh points inside this object and shape them TO this object"..and let the rest of the stuff outside just follow along in a decent curve.
Not in Illustrator.
I'm still not really understanding what it is you're trying to do.
Prolly 'cause you're already warped.
Yeah, well... I have no clue what's SHE is trying to do at this point. And, unfortunately for her, I am one of the few people on here that might be able to help. I thought I had her problem down, but the more and more posting that gets done, I am now completely clueless. If she could post some kind of example so I can see what the problem is, I might have a solution. It's too hard for me to try to sort through words that more times than not, confuse the issue. That's why I always ask for the file, or a screenshot. Sorry, that's how I roll.
I also think it's because you're already warped. Nothing to do with too many words. :dev2:
I'm a Prepress guy, who but a warped individual would continue in this career?
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 21, 2012, 01:05:57 PMNot in Illustrator.
Okay then a plug in. If the "align" tool can have the underlying mechanics to use the clipping path, then the arc or warp envelope should be able to have code written that would follow the same logic.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 21, 2012, 01:14:17 PMI'm still not really understanding what it is you're trying to do.
You have been sent in an Illustrator file, with placed photos and vector graphics that has a clipping path on top of it in a rectangular shape. You need to warp this to wrap around a cup. The placed photos and vectors are not symmetrical to the clipping path. You find that simply "selecting all" and warping or arcing will mean that the entire wireframe will be used to calculate the warp...not just what you need inside the clipping path. Ergo, you get a reeeeaaaaalllly distorted piece of digital crap to shovel instead of a nicely warped graphic. Comprende?
Surely will all the printed cups in the world....someone out there has a solution. Whether that's a designer, or a prepress guru.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 21, 2012, 02:16:49 PMI'm a Prepress guy, who but a warped individual would continue in this career?
A question I have asked in the mirror countless times.....
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 21, 2012, 01:51:10 PM......If she could post some kind of example so I can see what the problem is, I might have a solution. It's too hard for me to try to sort through words that more times than not, confuse the issue.
Just create a bunch of slightly overlapping shapes in Illustrator. Place a rectangular box on top of all with no fill, no stroke. Make sure it's off center. Now...warp that and you'll get what I'm experiencing. (You can use arc...you can use envelope mesh.....)
If the rectangle was set up in ratio to the flattened shape of the cup, the art needs to warp symmetrically to wrap around the cup. Illustrator won't do it symmetrically because it selects everything, even the stuff that is not visible but exists under the clipping path.
Is there a way to make it symmetrical?
my 2 cents :laugh:
What if you were to say cut the contents of the mask, then use the mask as the center of a compound path after drawing a larger rectangle around it. Then copying it and using it to punch the art underneath and extending beyond the original clipping mask. Each time pasting the new compound mask in front and punching each shape. After all the art is trimmed, releasing the new compound path and reclipping to the original mask? Follow me?
Okay, I think I get what you're explaining. Just draw a larger box that encompasses all the art, make sure the art is centered in that box, then group it an then apply the warp.
Like this...
1. Original art
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk30/DigitalCrapShoveler/1_zps54ab607d.png)
2. Original art with Warp Effect
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk30/DigitalCrapShoveler/2_zps6e72cc7d.png)
3. New Box with art centered (Mine is not exact, but you get the idea)
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk30/DigitalCrapShoveler/3_zpsd09bc469.png)
4. New Box with art grouped Warped
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk30/DigitalCrapShoveler/4_zps84bac012.png)
Is this what you are asking?
Furthermore, here is the exact same process as above, but with my previous solution where you are using the original clipping mask as a compound path to delete the extraneous art hidden by the mask.
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk30/DigitalCrapShoveler/5_zps6c991275.png)
Quote from: Tracy on September 21, 2012, 05:18:54 PMIs there a way to make it symmetrical?
my 2 cents :laugh:
Yes, that's the workaround now. But we're talking a complex piece of art with placed photos and vectors that aren't easy to accurately crop back to the bleed. Meanwhile the warp really has to be calculated from the TRIM.....not the bleed.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 21, 2012, 05:54:31 PMWhat if you were to say cut the contents of the mask, then use the mask as the center of a compound path after drawing a larger rectangle around it. Then copying it and using it to punch the art underneath and extending beyond the original clipping mask. Each time pasting the new compound mask in front and punching each shape. After all the art is trimmed, releasing the new compound path and reclipping to the original mask? Follow me?
Yes I do follow you, and you're beginning to understand, however, what's described here is simply a way to trim the art back to make it symmetrical, and that's the crux of the problem. Plus....to be accurate, the warp has to be calculated from the trim/dieline and not the bleed. Imagine that you have something that has to match up across the seam of the cup. Even if you trim everything to the bleed, and get Illustrator to use the bleed size to calculate the warp, it's still off.
I need Illustrator to KEEP the bleed, but use the trim as the size to warp to.
I think I need to marry a computer aided drafting program with Illustrator, so that's the kind of plug in I'm looking for. I need an accurate distortion to a specific size on a complicated piece of art created with Adobe CS.
I actually think Adobe could make this happen. If I do an arc using the envelope mesh tool, I can manually distort the individual points.
I want the computer to do that accurately for me. Use the dieline as the "active" area, calculate the warp to the designated size templet, then warp the art...letting what's in the bleed and beyond go along but not be calculated in the warp area.
If this doesn't currently exist....it ought to. It's doable.
Unfortunately, most tools like what you need in Illustrator are more visual, rather than numerical. What you want, and what Illustrator can do, are apparently 2 completely different things. I am totally flying in the dark. I don't know what your file looks like or what you are trying to conform it to, so I really can't help you any more than what I've already done.
Where's Ash?
Quote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 23, 2012, 07:56:06 AMQuote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 21, 2012, 05:54:31 PMWhat if you were to say cut the contents of the mask, then use the mask as the center of a compound path after drawing a larger rectangle around it. Then copying it and using it to punch the art underneath and extending beyond the original clipping mask. Each time pasting the new compound mask in front and punching each shape. After all the art is trimmed, releasing the new compound path and reclipping to the original mask? Follow me?
Yes I do follow you, and you're beginning to understand, however, what's described here is simply a way to trim the art back to make it symmetrical, and that's the crux of the problem. Plus....to be accurate, the warp has to be calculated from the trim/dieline and not the bleed. Imagine that you have something that has to match up across the seam of the cup. Even if you trim everything to the bleed, and get Illustrator to use the bleed size to calculate the warp, it's still off.
I need Illustrator to KEEP the bleed, but use the trim as the size to warp to.
Can't you mask the art to the required size, warp to the dieline and then offset your now-warped mask path out by 1/8 in to get the needed bleed? Just speculation here as I am at home and can't try it.
Quote from: andyfest on September 23, 2012, 05:06:21 PMQuote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 23, 2012, 07:56:06 AMQuote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on September 21, 2012, 05:54:31 PMWhat if you were to say cut the contents of the mask, then use the mask as the center of a compound path after drawing a larger rectangle around it. Then copying it and using it to punch the art underneath and extending beyond the original clipping mask. Each time pasting the new compound mask in front and punching each shape. After all the art is trimmed, releasing the new compound path and reclipping to the original mask? Follow me?
Yes I do follow you, and you're beginning to understand, however, what's described here is simply a way to trim the art back to make it symmetrical, and that's the crux of the problem. Plus....to be accurate, the warp has to be calculated from the trim/dieline and not the bleed. Imagine that you have something that has to match up across the seam of the cup. Even if you trim everything to the bleed, and get Illustrator to use the bleed size to calculate the warp, it's still off.
I need Illustrator to KEEP the bleed, but use the trim as the size to warp to.
Can't you mask the art to the required size, warp to the dieline and then offset your now-warped mask path out by 1/8 in to get the needed bleed? Just speculation here as I am at home and can't try it.
No, reason being, Illustrator won't use just what's visible inside the mask to warp to the dieline. It will use the entire art that exists under the clipping path, ergo, everything has to be manually trimmed back by hand. But even that doesn't really work, especially if one of the elements needing "trimmed" is a complex placed photo.
And....most of all...thank you to everyone that took the time to respond to this thread. I appreciate the help.
Quote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 21, 2012, 11:02:26 AMQuote from: Grimace on September 20, 2012, 04:07:03 PMQuote from: CMYKFrustrated on September 20, 2012, 11:17:52 AMEnvelope distort (as far as I know, or have found, but correct me if I'm wrong) will still take the entire drawing into the calculation, including what is hidden by the clipping path.
If Illustrator can do this for the "Align" feature, I'm just surprised that it can't do this for the "warp" or "arc" or "envelope" feature.
Anyone out there do work that is required to be distorted to fit an actual object? If so, what do you use to get a high quality, editable file with an ability to precisely shape it to fit?
Try using the Mesh option. It allows you to grab points and move them as needed. Also check the Envelope Options and check the clipping mask option.
This may be too cumbersome for what you need, but I believe the mesh option eliminates the funky warp effects you describe.
I'm playing with this now, Illustrator CS6. I'm using the clipping mask option with the envelope warp, but it seems to position the warp box to the entire art instead of just the clipping mask.
I've also watched the Lynda.com tutorial on the Illustrator CS6 2D perspective drawing...and or...mapping static artwork to the perspective grid.
I need Illustrator to either align the envelope mesh tool with the clipping path.....or...allow the 2D perspective too to curve it's lines.
Any ideas? Am I doing something wrong?
You probably aren't doing anything wrong. The envelope mesh warp will only warp what you have selected. I don't know if you can just select what you need and get the effect you are looking for though.
sorry, late to the rodeo here, but Esko has come a long way in their packaging software. I haven't used it, but they have a pretty good distort program from what I hear (saw it briefly at a demo earlier this year). It's called PowerWarp
Not sure what your budget is, but...
Linkage:
http://www.esko.com/en/Products/overview/artpro/modules (http://www.esko.com/en/Products/overview/artpro/modules)
Quote from: david on September 24, 2012, 01:35:18 PMsorry, late to the rodeo here, but Esko has come a long way in their packaging software. I haven't used it, but they have a pretty good distort program from what I hear (saw it briefly at a demo earlier this year). It's called PowerWarp
Not sure what your budget is, but...
Linkage:
http://www.esko.com/en/Products/overview/artpro/modules (http://www.esko.com/en/Products/overview/artpro/modules)
They may have finally perfected it, I know in the past it worked the same as Illustrator. Extremely expensive, and can't just buy the "warping" aspect.
I've been searching the Adobe forums and anywhere else online that I could think of. The Strada plug in did get back to me telling me they couldn't do the warping. I appreciate them answering my question.
One of the things that I learned from the Adobe forums is that Photoshop actually does a better job of warping than Illustrator. However, that's not really a solution, but it makes me believe that Illustrator is CAPABLE of this...it just hasn't been developed yet.
Sorry, I know this is six years too late but the problem is not actually the clipping mask or the size of the image that is clipped. The problem is that Illustrator cannot change a linked image. So the clipping mask gets distorted/warped along with the rest of your art, but the picture does not. The solution therefore becomes incredibly, maddeningly simple: just embed your image prior to warping.
Oh wait...never mind. I'm seeing further into the problem. Embedding the image is only the start of the fix. You're right. The image has to be cropped off manually to work...and since it's bleeding as well for you, you're kind of screwed. Dang you Illustrator! This is an illustrator fail...even in 2019.